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Love his books! Although, it seems like he’s getting a bad rep these days. How did that happen? PS: I’m referring to that video that pops up on top when you g

by baxtr 2y ago

Love his books! Although, it seems like he’s getting a bad rep these days. How did that happen? PS: I’m referring to that video that pops up on top when you google him for example.

tovej 2y ago
He hasn't written a single book (surprising I know), I assume you're talking about "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman", which contains exaggerated anecdotes designed to make Feynman look like a hero. That one was written by a fanboy (Ralph Leighton) based on stories that Feynman told him, which have been revealed to be either fake or exaggerations (they found notes in his office of him writing and rewriting these hero stories). It's a terrible book, in my opinion. If you want to know why, Angela Collier says it better and in more detail than I could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc Is that the video you're referring to? Watch the video and I think you'll see why he is "getting a bad rep these days".
adastra22 2y ago
All the first page results of my Google search are positive, except for the one video (not near the top of the results) that has a provocative title but is 2 hours long. I’m not going to watch that. Can you link to the negative stuff you’re seeing?
- baxtr 2y ago
  That is the one I was talking about. Watching the first 5 minutes is enough I think.
  - scintill76 2y ago
    I’ve watched 2 Angela Collier videos on him albeit in the background — you’d probably have to watch the whole thing to truly understand the “bad rep” and I can’t speak to how widespread the bad rep is. My memory is, misogyny, cringey stories that were surely greatly exaggerated and just happen to make Feynman the smartest guy in every room, kind of a jerk in general, divorce due to claimed domestic violence, never did the work of writing a book personally but has the reputation of being a prolific author, his pop appeal makes people elevate him to the very top minds of physics when the work of others was much more impactful.
    - sundarurfriend 2y ago
      I haven't watched this particular video, but Angela Collier's channel seems to be unfortunately going the typical way of pop-physicists, like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Sabine Hossenfelder, etc. - becoming famous for their physics-related content, and then assuming they're an expert at everything because they are physicists, and physics explains everything. It seems to be a rare physicist (possibly Sean Carroll) that's in the public eye, that doesn't succumb to this disease. The fault lies partly with the viewers and commenters, ascribing a similar level of expertise to their platitudes and ill-informed takes on, for eg. AI, as to their actual field of expertise. But they don't exactly discourage that either, and in some cases lean into it actively. It's at least a hopeful sign that the descent into "physicist disease" isn't especially rapid in Angela's case, physics still being the primary topic on the channel, but it's still disappointing all the same.
      - tovej 2y ago
        She's the only youtube physicist I can stand, to be honest. Much better than Tyson, and much, much better than Hossenfelder, who's turning out to be a complete crank. Collier is matter of fact, cites her sources, and has non-hot takes on whatever non-physics topic she's talking about (e.g. AI). Sure, she gets the terminology wrong, but she gets the main thrust of the matter right. I say that as a computer science researcher who's concerned about AI ethics. And her video on Feynman is detailed and worth watching. She goes through evidence from court cases of Feynman strangling his wife, of how Ralph Leighton created much of this myth of Feynman by fanboying him. And she gives him the benefit of the doubt as well, presenting him as flawed, but human.
      - adastra22 2y ago
        Ironically Richard Feynman is an example of a physicist that doesn’t succumb to that disease. Maybe that’s why Angela Collier doesn’t like him? Reminds me of how a lot of astronomers despised Carl Sagan.
elteto 2y ago
He was misogynistic and, by his own admission, did not hold women in high regard. I don’t remember exactly but I think he even admitted that at some point in his life he didn’t believe women could be scientists, or at least not as good as men. I think that by the end of his life he had matured and outgrown this. He was deeply affected by the death of his first wife. I personally believe that he developed misogynistic traits as a way of self-defense and driven by the pain of her loss. They were deeply in love. His farewell letter to her is so beautiful and touching, and yet so pragmatic, in a way that only Feynman could be. He is a personal hero but I do understand he was human and as such, a flawed individual like anyone else.
- matt_j 2y ago
  Given that his sister Joan was an accomplished scientist in her own right, and they got along well, I don't think your comment is accurate. > “During the conference I was staying with my sister in Syracuse. I brought the paper home and said to her, “I can’t understand these things that Lee and Yang are saying. It’s all so complicated.” > “No,” she said, “what you mean is not that you can’t understand it, but that you didn’t invent it. You didn’t figure it out your own way, from hearing the clue. What you should do is imagine you’re a student again, and take this paper upstairs, read every line of it, and check the equations. Then you’ll understand it very easily.” > I took her advice, and checked through the whole thing, and found it to be very obvious and simple. I had been afraid to read it, thinking it was too difficult.” http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/04/richard-feynmans-sister-joans-advice-to.html http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/04/richard-feynm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Feynman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Feynman
halgir 2y ago
Personally, I experienced a rude awakening when reading his book "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!". I've read part of his lectures, and heard great things about him in general. So I was extremely surprised when his own collection of anecdotes painted him as kind of a shitty human, in my opinion. Very much an example of "never meet your heroes" for me.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

by baxtr 2y ago

Love his books! Although, it seems like he’s getting a bad rep these days. How did that happen? PS: I’m referring to that video that pops up on top when you google him for example.

tovej 2y ago

He hasn't written a single book (surprising I know), I assume you're talking about "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman", which contains exaggerated anecdotes designed to make Feynman look like a hero. That one was written by a fanboy (Ralph Leighton) based on stories that Feynman told him, which have been revealed to be either fake or exaggerations (they found notes in his office of him writing and rewriting these hero stories). It's a terrible book, in my opinion. If you want to know why, Angela Collier says it better and in more detail than I could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc Is that the video you're referring to? Watch the video and I think you'll see why he is "getting a bad rep these days".

adastra22 2y ago

All the first page results of my Google search are positive, except for the one video (not near the top of the results) that has a provocative title but is 2 hours long. I’m not going to watch that. Can you link to the negative stuff you’re seeing?

baxtr 2y ago
That is the one I was talking about. Watching the first 5 minutes is enough I think.
- scintill76 2y ago
  I’ve watched 2 Angela Collier videos on him albeit in the background — you’d probably have to watch the whole thing to truly understand the “bad rep” and I can’t speak to how widespread the bad rep is. My memory is, misogyny, cringey stories that were surely greatly exaggerated and just happen to make Feynman the smartest guy in every room, kind of a jerk in general, divorce due to claimed domestic violence, never did the work of writing a book personally but has the reputation of being a prolific author, his pop appeal makes people elevate him to the very top minds of physics when the work of others was much more impactful.
  - sundarurfriend 2y ago
    I haven't watched this particular video, but Angela Collier's channel seems to be unfortunately going the typical way of pop-physicists, like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Sabine Hossenfelder, etc. - becoming famous for their physics-related content, and then assuming they're an expert at everything because they are physicists, and physics explains everything. It seems to be a rare physicist (possibly Sean Carroll) that's in the public eye, that doesn't succumb to this disease. The fault lies partly with the viewers and commenters, ascribing a similar level of expertise to their platitudes and ill-informed takes on, for eg. AI, as to their actual field of expertise. But they don't exactly discourage that either, and in some cases lean into it actively. It's at least a hopeful sign that the descent into "physicist disease" isn't especially rapid in Angela's case, physics still being the primary topic on the channel, but it's still disappointing all the same.
    - tovej 2y ago
      She's the only youtube physicist I can stand, to be honest. Much better than Tyson, and much, much better than Hossenfelder, who's turning out to be a complete crank. Collier is matter of fact, cites her sources, and has non-hot takes on whatever non-physics topic she's talking about (e.g. AI). Sure, she gets the terminology wrong, but she gets the main thrust of the matter right. I say that as a computer science researcher who's concerned about AI ethics. And her video on Feynman is detailed and worth watching. She goes through evidence from court cases of Feynman strangling his wife, of how Ralph Leighton created much of this myth of Feynman by fanboying him. And she gives him the benefit of the doubt as well, presenting him as flawed, but human.
    - adastra22 2y ago
      Ironically Richard Feynman is an example of a physicist that doesn’t succumb to that disease. Maybe that’s why Angela Collier doesn’t like him? Reminds me of how a lot of astronomers despised Carl Sagan.

elteto 2y ago

He was misogynistic and, by his own admission, did not hold women in high regard. I don’t remember exactly but I think he even admitted that at some point in his life he didn’t believe women could be scientists, or at least not as good as men. I think that by the end of his life he had matured and outgrown this. He was deeply affected by the death of his first wife. I personally believe that he developed misogynistic traits as a way of self-defense and driven by the pain of her loss. They were deeply in love. His farewell letter to her is so beautiful and touching, and yet so pragmatic, in a way that only Feynman could be. He is a personal hero but I do understand he was human and as such, a flawed individual like anyone else.

matt_j 2y ago
Given that his sister Joan was an accomplished scientist in her own right, and they got along well, I don't think your comment is accurate. > “During the conference I was staying with my sister in Syracuse. I brought the paper home and said to her, “I can’t understand these things that Lee and Yang are saying. It’s all so complicated.” > “No,” she said, “what you mean is not that you can’t understand it, but that you didn’t invent it. You didn’t figure it out your own way, from hearing the clue. What you should do is imagine you’re a student again, and take this paper upstairs, read every line of it, and check the equations. Then you’ll understand it very easily.” > I took her advice, and checked through the whole thing, and found it to be very obvious and simple. I had been afraid to read it, thinking it was too difficult.” http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/04/richard-feynmans-sister-joans-advice-to.html http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/04/richard-feynm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Feynman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Feynman

halgir 2y ago

Personally, I experienced a rude awakening when reading his book "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!". I've read part of his lectures, and heard great things about him in general. So I was extremely surprised when his own collection of anecdotes painted him as kind of a shitty human, in my opinion. Very much an example of "never meet your heroes" for me.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]