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As somebody who has read a large number of visual novels (VNs), I consider Ren'py one of the better engines as a consumer: - It has all the basic featured you'

As somebody who has read a large number of visual novels (VNs), I consider Ren'py one of the better engines as a consumer: - It has all the basic featured you'd expect, ranging from proper backlogs, to key bindings, and much more. You'd be shocked how many VN developers think that they can just pop out an VN engine themselves, and end up producing something that lacks even basic features. - It is performant. You'd be surprised how poorly many VN engines run really poorly. Fast-forwarding past already-read text is often capped at a surprisingly slow rate, with your CPU pegged at 100%, due to how inefficient many engines are - It is easily moddable, as you just need to plop a (pseudo-)python script into the game folder, so you can easily tweak or turn off annoying bits of UI A number of localization companies have also ported (typically older) Japanese titles to Ren'py, instead of having to struggle with poor to non-existent support for non-Japanese systems in the original engine, as well as extremely expensive engine licenses, and just straight up poorly written bespoke engines. Examples of companies having done this includes JAST USA, FAKKU, MangaGamer, and (IIRC) Sekai Project/Denpasoft. In other words, the heavy hitters of VN localization. The other main contender for best VN engine (in my mind) is the KiriKiri engine, which I believe is also open source, but which lacks the large, English-speaking community that Ren'py has built. Despite that, Ren'py does have a bit of a poor reputation in the older VN reading community, more specifically among readers who mainly read localized, Japanese VNs, due to its association with low-budget, originally English visual novels. Typically the same people have only heard of DDLC and Katawa Shoujo, when it comes to originally English visual novels

jandrese 2y ago
One thing Ren'Py does well that many other engines do poorly is forward compatibility of saves. When VNs are released in pieces over time it is important to make sure the saves carry forward. Nothing kills momentum like "you will need to start over from scratch after every update". As far as competitors go, the list is not very long. Sugarcube/Twine works ok, but tends to bog down as the projects grow large because it doesn't have a good way of breaking up the core logic across different files. The save system is also a bit of a problem since the in-browser saves tend to get lost in version updates. QSP is just a buggy confusing mess every time. People try to shoehorn RPGMaker into doing the job but it is just so clunky and slow. Custom engines, typically built in Unity, are almost always massive resource hogs and lacking in one or more of the basic features Ren'Py provides by default. Plus there is just the community aspect of it, with Ren'Py having so many developers there is a lot of institutional knowledge to be had. If you run into a problem you are probably not the first, someone else has probably solved it already.
- optionalsquid 2y ago
  I took a quick look via query.vndb.org, and the top 10 most popular engines in terms of releases are Ren'Py, KiriKiri, TyranoScript, Unity, NScripter, LiveMaker, RPG Maker, YU-RIS, Flash, and Artemis (from most to least). This is of course not an exact ranking, since the same game can have many (nearly identical) releases, but it roughly matches my experience
  - snvzz 2y ago
    Notably nscripter has a third party open source reimplementation in onscripter[0], which in turn has a fork in onscripter-en[1]. 0. https://github.com/ogapee/onscripter https://github.com/ogapee/onscripter 1. https://github.com/Galladite27/ONScripter-EN https://github.com/Galladite27/ONScripter-EN
- woctordho 2y ago
  Forward compatibility of saves is harder than people thought. VN scripts have choices and loops, so in general they are graphs, and upgrading the saves to another version requires matching two graphs. I'd be happy to know if there is a good diff algorithm for graphs In practice graph matching can be helped by manually tagging the same nodes (labels in Ren'Py) in the two versions, but that cannot cover all the edge cases I'm developing a VN framework for the own use of my indie VN dev group, and we mostly implemented the diff algorithm for the 'linear' part of the graphs. You can search my handle to know more
  - KomradeKeeks 2y ago
    Hey, thanks for the context in this thread; I've been working on a project in I7 because I love the form factor of parser &choice-based IF. I'm looking to release the project like a webcomic, with monthly/quarterly chapters, but the backwards compatibility issue in I7 has been a blocker. In your indie VN dev group, are there any devs working on cross-platform, parser & choice-based VNs (ie I can read a work on mobile as choice-based, but if I want to continue that same save on my computer/ enter commands, I can do that)?
opencl 2y ago
The best thing about Renpy is that the text rendering actually looks good, which is true of shockingly few VN engines even today. Especially when you increase the window size or run fullscreen, most VN engines just render the whole game at a fixed resolution and upscale it up but Renpy makes the framebuffer match the window size and renders text at the full resolution.
simion314 2y ago
Agree, as a person with accessibility issues, I prefer this engine because it has a basic TTS support that I can mod and plug my own custom TTS script. I also seen people reinventing poorly the engine in Unity so for me text based games or visual novels in Unity are just a NO , because of TTS support.
devnullbrain 2y ago
>proper backlogs Something noticeably missing from almost every other type of text-heavy game which perhaps wouldn't be if games developers were less snobbish about where they draw inspiration from. On the other hand, writers of games with metatextual stories benefit from their target audience not knowing how well-trod the ground is.
- edflsafoiewq 2y ago
  The other big text engines are probably Inform 7 and Twine? They both have undo.
  - devnullbrain 2y ago
    Text-heavy. JRPGs love to include 20 minutes of reading where an errant click means you miss a line, forever.
ianbicking 2y ago
What does a "backlog" mean in this context?
- daedrdev 2y ago
  Like you can either read a log of what characters said in a scene so far, or simply go backwards through the story to reach an earlier line and view it again.
- Shish2k 2y ago
  You can rewind a conversation in case you accidentally pressed the "skip" button and missed some important plot point
- Birch-san 2y ago
  I think they meant scrollback. as conventionally a backlog would evoke "work yet to be done", whereas in this context we're talking about a conversation history one can revisit.
- optionalsquid 2y ago
  Sorry, as others have said, I meant a text log or "history". Basically, the ability to view the last N lines of text. For some VNs, this log also allows you to replay the voice lines, to jump back to specific lines/scenes, and even to bookmark specific lines, separately from saving the game. Ren'py is actually a bit unusual in this regard, since the default behavior is a rewind feature rather than a text log. However, most commercial Ren'py VNs will show the history as a log.
tumsfestival 2y ago
>A number of localization companies have also ported (typically older) Japanese titles to Ren'py, instead of having to struggle with poor to non-existent support for non-Japanese systems in the original engine, as well as extremely expensive engine licenses, and just straight up poorly written bespoke engines. Examples of companies having done this includes JAST USA, FAKKU, MangaGamer, and (IIRC) Sekai Project/Denpasoft. In other words, the heavy hitters of VN localization. That caught my curiosity, but I couldn't find any examples of older VNs being ported to Renpy. Could you share any examples?
- borgerc 2y ago
  [dead]
- woctordho 2y ago
  Many examples can be queried from VNDB https://query.vndb.org/8e75036b2dcfe441 https://query.vndb.org/8e75036b2dcfe441
- optionalsquid 2y ago
  Examples include 'Love Duction!' (2014) published by Sekai Project/Denpasoft, 'Sona-Nyl of the Violet Shadows Refrain' (2011) localized by MangaGamer, multiple re-releases of late-90s/early 2000s titles published by JAST USA such as X-Change (1997-2004), Water Closet (2000), and Heart de Roommate (2003), and 'True Love 95' (1995) published by FAKKU
LiquidSky 2y ago
Can you recommend some good VNs for a newbie?
- dataveg 2y ago
  Misericorde volumes 1 and 2 on Steam and Itch - both renpy based I believe. Fantastic example of an immersive novel, a murder mystery set in a 14th century abbey.
- optionalsquid 2y ago
  Much like books, that depends on what kind of stories interest you. Though it'd be advantageous for you if you enjoy romance, because that genre is heavily over-represented. But if there are no titles that have already caught your interest, then my personal recommendation is to start with hybrid games such as VA-11 Hall-A, the Danganronpa series, the Ace Attorney series, WILL: A Wonderful World, and 999. VNs are at their core a reading experience, frequently involving more words than what you'll find in the entire Lords of the Ring trilogy, but hybrid games like the above allow you to dip your toes in the VN genre without it purely being reading
- woctordho 2y ago
  Reddit has it https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/wiki/recommendations https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/wiki/recommendations
woolion 2y ago
I agree as for my own VN I started working with a custom-made engine until I completed the rollback-feature requirements; after seeing the scope of it, I checked renPy and found it basically did everything right already. In many ways I felt that the engine was designer for beginners rather than developers in a way that are antagonistic to each others. No real debugger, no support for libraries, leading to re-implementation of basic stuff, etc. I had a love-hate relationship with it. Pseudo-python is the right term for it. In the end I was happy with the Steam features it already had to make distribution easy, although I had to actually patch the engine as the Steam session ticket function was broken.

jandrese 2y ago

One thing Ren'Py does well that many other engines do poorly is forward compatibility of saves. When VNs are released in pieces over time it is important to make sure the saves carry forward. Nothing kills momentum like "you will need to start over from scratch after every update". As far as competitors go, the list is not very long. Sugarcube/Twine works ok, but tends to bog down as the projects grow large because it doesn't have a good way of breaking up the core logic across different files. The save system is also a bit of a problem since the in-browser saves tend to get lost in version updates. QSP is just a buggy confusing mess every time. People try to shoehorn RPGMaker into doing the job but it is just so clunky and slow. Custom engines, typically built in Unity, are almost always massive resource hogs and lacking in one or more of the basic features Ren'Py provides by default. Plus there is just the community aspect of it, with Ren'Py having so many developers there is a lot of institutional knowledge to be had. If you run into a problem you are probably not the first, someone else has probably solved it already.

optionalsquid 2y ago
I took a quick look via query.vndb.org, and the top 10 most popular engines in terms of releases are Ren'Py, KiriKiri, TyranoScript, Unity, NScripter, LiveMaker, RPG Maker, YU-RIS, Flash, and Artemis (from most to least). This is of course not an exact ranking, since the same game can have many (nearly identical) releases, but it roughly matches my experience
- snvzz 2y ago
  Notably nscripter has a third party open source reimplementation in onscripter[0], which in turn has a fork in onscripter-en[1]. 0. https://github.com/ogapee/onscripter https://github.com/ogapee/onscripter 1. https://github.com/Galladite27/ONScripter-EN https://github.com/Galladite27/ONScripter-EN
woctordho 2y ago
Forward compatibility of saves is harder than people thought. VN scripts have choices and loops, so in general they are graphs, and upgrading the saves to another version requires matching two graphs. I'd be happy to know if there is a good diff algorithm for graphs In practice graph matching can be helped by manually tagging the same nodes (labels in Ren'Py) in the two versions, but that cannot cover all the edge cases I'm developing a VN framework for the own use of my indie VN dev group, and we mostly implemented the diff algorithm for the 'linear' part of the graphs. You can search my handle to know more
- KomradeKeeks 2y ago
  Hey, thanks for the context in this thread; I've been working on a project in I7 because I love the form factor of parser &choice-based IF. I'm looking to release the project like a webcomic, with monthly/quarterly chapters, but the backwards compatibility issue in I7 has been a blocker. In your indie VN dev group, are there any devs working on cross-platform, parser & choice-based VNs (ie I can read a work on mobile as choice-based, but if I want to continue that same save on my computer/ enter commands, I can do that)?

opencl 2y ago

The best thing about Renpy is that the text rendering actually looks good, which is true of shockingly few VN engines even today. Especially when you increase the window size or run fullscreen, most VN engines just render the whole game at a fixed resolution and upscale it up but Renpy makes the framebuffer match the window size and renders text at the full resolution.

simion314 2y ago

Agree, as a person with accessibility issues, I prefer this engine because it has a basic TTS support that I can mod and plug my own custom TTS script. I also seen people reinventing poorly the engine in Unity so for me text based games or visual novels in Unity are just a NO , because of TTS support.

devnullbrain 2y ago

>proper backlogs Something noticeably missing from almost every other type of text-heavy game which perhaps wouldn't be if games developers were less snobbish about where they draw inspiration from. On the other hand, writers of games with metatextual stories benefit from their target audience not knowing how well-trod the ground is.

edflsafoiewq 2y ago
The other big text engines are probably Inform 7 and Twine? They both have undo.
- devnullbrain 2y ago
  Text-heavy. JRPGs love to include 20 minutes of reading where an errant click means you miss a line, forever.

ianbicking 2y ago

What does a "backlog" mean in this context?

daedrdev 2y ago
Like you can either read a log of what characters said in a scene so far, or simply go backwards through the story to reach an earlier line and view it again.
Shish2k 2y ago
You can rewind a conversation in case you accidentally pressed the "skip" button and missed some important plot point
Birch-san 2y ago
I think they meant scrollback. as conventionally a backlog would evoke "work yet to be done", whereas in this context we're talking about a conversation history one can revisit.
optionalsquid 2y ago
Sorry, as others have said, I meant a text log or "history". Basically, the ability to view the last N lines of text. For some VNs, this log also allows you to replay the voice lines, to jump back to specific lines/scenes, and even to bookmark specific lines, separately from saving the game. Ren'py is actually a bit unusual in this regard, since the default behavior is a rewind feature rather than a text log. However, most commercial Ren'py VNs will show the history as a log.

tumsfestival 2y ago

>A number of localization companies have also ported (typically older) Japanese titles to Ren'py, instead of having to struggle with poor to non-existent support for non-Japanese systems in the original engine, as well as extremely expensive engine licenses, and just straight up poorly written bespoke engines. Examples of companies having done this includes JAST USA, FAKKU, MangaGamer, and (IIRC) Sekai Project/Denpasoft. In other words, the heavy hitters of VN localization. That caught my curiosity, but I couldn't find any examples of older VNs being ported to Renpy. Could you share any examples?

borgerc 2y ago
[dead]
woctordho 2y ago
Many examples can be queried from VNDB https://query.vndb.org/8e75036b2dcfe441 https://query.vndb.org/8e75036b2dcfe441
optionalsquid 2y ago
Examples include 'Love Duction!' (2014) published by Sekai Project/Denpasoft, 'Sona-Nyl of the Violet Shadows Refrain' (2011) localized by MangaGamer, multiple re-releases of late-90s/early 2000s titles published by JAST USA such as X-Change (1997-2004), Water Closet (2000), and Heart de Roommate (2003), and 'True Love 95' (1995) published by FAKKU

LiquidSky 2y ago

Can you recommend some good VNs for a newbie?

dataveg 2y ago
Misericorde volumes 1 and 2 on Steam and Itch - both renpy based I believe. Fantastic example of an immersive novel, a murder mystery set in a 14th century abbey.
optionalsquid 2y ago
Much like books, that depends on what kind of stories interest you. Though it'd be advantageous for you if you enjoy romance, because that genre is heavily over-represented. But if there are no titles that have already caught your interest, then my personal recommendation is to start with hybrid games such as VA-11 Hall-A, the Danganronpa series, the Ace Attorney series, WILL: A Wonderful World, and 999. VNs are at their core a reading experience, frequently involving more words than what you'll find in the entire Lords of the Ring trilogy, but hybrid games like the above allow you to dip your toes in the VN genre without it purely being reading
woctordho 2y ago
Reddit has it https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/wiki/recommendations https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/wiki/recommendations

woolion 2y ago

I agree as for my own VN I started working with a custom-made engine until I completed the rollback-feature requirements; after seeing the scope of it, I checked renPy and found it basically did everything right already. In many ways I felt that the engine was designer for beginners rather than developers in a way that are antagonistic to each others. No real debugger, no support for libraries, leading to re-implementation of basic stuff, etc. I had a love-hate relationship with it. Pseudo-python is the right term for it. In the end I was happy with the Steam features it already had to make distribution easy, although I had to actually patch the engine as the Steam session ticket function was broken.