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I feel like I keep getting tricked by the naysayers on this one, sometimes it's people saying Apple is abandoning the project, or that the next model will come

I feel like I keep getting tricked by the naysayers on this one, sometimes it's people saying Apple is abandoning the project, or that the next model will come out in the next 12 months, or that it's useless. Meanwhile, Apple actually seems to remain committed to it and plugging away, and the Mac mirroring since 2.2 seems like a killer app feature that could make me a lot more productive since I'm currently only laptop-based. Maybe I should pick one up.

bombcar 2y ago
Apple is moderately decent about supporting abandoned products (like the Airport, RIP), so if you have the cash and the demo works well for you, go for it.
- tunesmith 2y ago
  My point is that despite what people say, it doesn't seem that AVP is abandoned.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    It’s not abandoned - it’s just that if they DO abandon it they’ll still support it for a number of years. So if your use case is cool 3D movies you might be out of luck, but desktop mirroring should work at least 3+ years.
  - detourdog 2y ago
    I think the AVP was the useful residue of the titan platform. I think Apple is committed to the AVP once extent that it represents their best effort at spatial computing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- zitterbewegung 2y ago
  It doesn't seem abandoned yet and it feels like the Lisa or the original HomePod where due to the software support they are going to make an Apple Vision Air.
  - asadotzler 2y ago
    That will come, it seems, but it'll still be around $2,000, out of reach for most, and it won't be until the Vision Pro had 3 years of miserable failure in the market. With demand almost non-existent after the first few months, and a tiny initial run being enough to cover all of the demand in 2025, how will 2026 look with near-zero sales? Can Apple keep it going for years with next to no sales? HomePod Mini did take about 2.5 years to arrive after HomePod flopped but those were mostly accessories, and hardly the centerpiece of Apple's next generation personal computing devices, the successor to smartphones and laptops. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
- asadotzler 2y ago
  Like the iPod HiFi? Because this is akin to that in its sales. ~350K units in year 1 and fewer than ~150K units in year 2 is a massive flop, and hardly like any of the Apple slow starts which all gained massive demand and momentum in their second years where AVP demand crashed months after release and will slide to near-zero early this year. I think it'll be more like Newton, they'll push hard for a couple of years to make it acceptable and when demand fails to materialize (at Apple scale) they will spike the project and say, like with Newton, as Jobs did, that "to realize their ambitious plans, they needed to concentrate all efforts in one direction"a probably AI or whatever the next big bubble happens to be about.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    That's the point - if the purchase over 2 or 3 years makes enough sense (because you have the money) go for it. $3k is a ton of money in some cases, but over 3 years it's $20 a week. It doesn't have to be all that great to be worth $20 a week.
    - zamadatix 2y ago
      looking at it like $20 per week doesn't sound so hard week 0 but it becomes a lot harder when you start thinking "Even if I do end up using this 156 weeks in a row is it really going to feel worth another $20 on week 46? and 97? and 134?".
zitterbewegung 2y ago
I've heard of people picking up the m4 Mac mini and using the AVP as a primary portable display and the new ultra wide Mac Mirroring is very impressive.
- LPisGood 2y ago
  Wait that sounds like a really good use case. Do you still need a magic mouse/keyboard?
  - 42772827 2y ago
    You don’t need one, but you’d want one if you’re serious about getting work done. Honestly it makes more sense just to lug around a MacBook Air. You can use battery from the MBA to get more time on the AVP. Aside from the battery being kind of clunky it’s not a bad set up
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- bookofjoe 2y ago
  Do you have Vision Pro and use Mac Mirroring? I do/tried and the poor resolution made it a FAIL for me.
  - 42772827 2y ago
    Did you use it with Vision OS 2? They upped the resolution a ton. It was a huge mistake to ship it with the lower resolution mirroring.
    - bookofjoe 2y ago
      I did update to OS 2 (and now 2.3); still too fuzzy for me be able to use it for work. I watch movies in 4K on the device and they are fantastic, so it's not my eyes/inserts.
  - zitterbewegung 2y ago
nerdjon 2y ago
I really think that anyone that thought that Apple was going to abandon this just due to "weak" sales is just trying to position the Vision Pro in the same segment as the Quest. When it simply isn't. It is focusing too much on the price. Apple may charge a premium for their devices but they are not stupid otherwise the iPhone would cost far more than it does now. I can almost guarantee that they knew that this would not be a mainstream device and it was them getting their feet wet while the technology catches up to the software. Maybe they even look at their success with the Apple Watch. When it first came out it was basically positioned as completely different device than it is now where most of the focus is on health with notifications being secondary. So get something out there and learn what people actually want. Some of the work on the Vision Pro will have an impact on other devices and other way around. Apple is clearly playing the long game here and maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But there is zero chance that they are abandoning it a year in. And unlike the original Apple Watch, the Vision Pro has a decent amount of compute in it to handle future updates even if a new version does come out.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Except one of the reasons it keeps being a niche is that was proven by those that trailed before Apple, games and AR in workplaces like factories, is what really sells these kind of headsets, none of which are markets Apple is at ease supporting. Secondly, Apple support among the Apple developer community surveys is at lowest since the iPhone came to be, they won't get too much community support targeting Vision Pro as development platform, unless they change their hubris towards the development community. They are where they are, and not yet another footnote in the company giants that went down burning, because the development community support in first place, when it was uncertainy how many pennies were left in Curpertino's account.
DennisP 2y ago
Didn't know about mirroring. I was stoked about the Vision Pro in the early days, until I found out it would only show one dinky MacOS window and the rest had to be special apps. If they're fixing that, it's starting to look interesting again. (What I really want is MacOS windows surrounding me, taking up way more visual real estate than even a large monitor. I'm sure that's a lot harder but it seems maybe possible since the device can tell where I'm looking.)
bookofjoe 2y ago
Don't. Mac mirroring in Vision Pro is a FAIL: resolution on one or two screens is terrible, MUCH worse than on native Mac screen.
asadotzler 2y ago
It's not nay-saying, it's supply chain analysis and speculation based on insider information and on and off the record conversations with journalists covering tech. At the end of this year, or early next, Apple may produce and ship a spec bump for the Vision Pro, call it v1.1 or 1.5. Then, about a year later, if all goes well, Apple will ship a "not-Pro" version that is expected to cut premium materials, the external display, and drop the optical stack down to something more like Quest's. Combined with a cut in Apple's margin, they should be able to get the price down to about $2,000, $1,999 to conform with Apple's pricing style guide. Then, about a year after that, if Apple's still pushing forward, they will likely ship the follow-up Vision Pro, call it v2. So, expect the Vision Pro 2 to arrive in late 2027 or early 2028. That's about a 4 year gap, closer to 5 years from the announcement. You can call that nay-saying, I call it analysis.

bombcar 2y ago

Apple is moderately decent about supporting abandoned products (like the Airport, RIP), so if you have the cash and the demo works well for you, go for it.

tunesmith 2y ago
My point is that despite what people say, it doesn't seem that AVP is abandoned.
- bombcar 2y ago
  It’s not abandoned - it’s just that if they DO abandon it they’ll still support it for a number of years. So if your use case is cool 3D movies you might be out of luck, but desktop mirroring should work at least 3+ years.
- detourdog 2y ago
  I think the AVP was the useful residue of the titan platform. I think Apple is committed to the AVP once extent that it represents their best effort at spatial computing.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
zitterbewegung 2y ago
It doesn't seem abandoned yet and it feels like the Lisa or the original HomePod where due to the software support they are going to make an Apple Vision Air.
- asadotzler 2y ago
  That will come, it seems, but it'll still be around $2,000, out of reach for most, and it won't be until the Vision Pro had 3 years of miserable failure in the market. With demand almost non-existent after the first few months, and a tiny initial run being enough to cover all of the demand in 2025, how will 2026 look with near-zero sales? Can Apple keep it going for years with next to no sales? HomePod Mini did take about 2.5 years to arrive after HomePod flopped but those were mostly accessories, and hardly the centerpiece of Apple's next generation personal computing devices, the successor to smartphones and laptops. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.
asadotzler 2y ago
Like the iPod HiFi? Because this is akin to that in its sales. ~350K units in year 1 and fewer than ~150K units in year 2 is a massive flop, and hardly like any of the Apple slow starts which all gained massive demand and momentum in their second years where AVP demand crashed months after release and will slide to near-zero early this year. I think it'll be more like Newton, they'll push hard for a couple of years to make it acceptable and when demand fails to materialize (at Apple scale) they will spike the project and say, like with Newton, as Jobs did, that "to realize their ambitious plans, they needed to concentrate all efforts in one direction"a probably AI or whatever the next big bubble happens to be about.
- bombcar 2y ago
  That's the point - if the purchase over 2 or 3 years makes enough sense (because you have the money) go for it. $3k is a ton of money in some cases, but over 3 years it's $20 a week. It doesn't have to be all that great to be worth $20 a week.
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    looking at it like $20 per week doesn't sound so hard week 0 but it becomes a lot harder when you start thinking "Even if I do end up using this 156 weeks in a row is it really going to feel worth another $20 on week 46? and 97? and 134?".

zitterbewegung 2y ago

I've heard of people picking up the m4 Mac mini and using the AVP as a primary portable display and the new ultra wide Mac Mirroring is very impressive.

LPisGood 2y ago
Wait that sounds like a really good use case. Do you still need a magic mouse/keyboard?
- 42772827 2y ago
  You don’t need one, but you’d want one if you’re serious about getting work done. Honestly it makes more sense just to lug around a MacBook Air. You can use battery from the MBA to get more time on the AVP. Aside from the battery being kind of clunky it’s not a bad set up
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
bookofjoe 2y ago
Do you have Vision Pro and use Mac Mirroring? I do/tried and the poor resolution made it a FAIL for me.
- 42772827 2y ago
  Did you use it with Vision OS 2? They upped the resolution a ton. It was a huge mistake to ship it with the lower resolution mirroring.
  - bookofjoe 2y ago
    I did update to OS 2 (and now 2.3); still too fuzzy for me be able to use it for work. I watch movies in 4K on the device and they are fantastic, so it's not my eyes/inserts.
- zitterbewegung 2y ago

nerdjon 2y ago

I really think that anyone that thought that Apple was going to abandon this just due to "weak" sales is just trying to position the Vision Pro in the same segment as the Quest. When it simply isn't. It is focusing too much on the price. Apple may charge a premium for their devices but they are not stupid otherwise the iPhone would cost far more than it does now. I can almost guarantee that they knew that this would not be a mainstream device and it was them getting their feet wet while the technology catches up to the software. Maybe they even look at their success with the Apple Watch. When it first came out it was basically positioned as completely different device than it is now where most of the focus is on health with notifications being secondary. So get something out there and learn what people actually want. Some of the work on the Vision Pro will have an impact on other devices and other way around. Apple is clearly playing the long game here and maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But there is zero chance that they are abandoning it a year in. And unlike the original Apple Watch, the Vision Pro has a decent amount of compute in it to handle future updates even if a new version does come out.

pjmlp 2y ago
Except one of the reasons it keeps being a niche is that was proven by those that trailed before Apple, games and AR in workplaces like factories, is what really sells these kind of headsets, none of which are markets Apple is at ease supporting. Secondly, Apple support among the Apple developer community surveys is at lowest since the iPhone came to be, they won't get too much community support targeting Vision Pro as development platform, unless they change their hubris towards the development community. They are where they are, and not yet another footnote in the company giants that went down burning, because the development community support in first place, when it was uncertainy how many pennies were left in Curpertino's account.

DennisP 2y ago

Didn't know about mirroring. I was stoked about the Vision Pro in the early days, until I found out it would only show one dinky MacOS window and the rest had to be special apps. If they're fixing that, it's starting to look interesting again. (What I really want is MacOS windows surrounding me, taking up way more visual real estate than even a large monitor. I'm sure that's a lot harder but it seems maybe possible since the device can tell where I'm looking.)

bookofjoe 2y ago

Don't. Mac mirroring in Vision Pro is a FAIL: resolution on one or two screens is terrible, MUCH worse than on native Mac screen.

asadotzler 2y ago

It's not nay-saying, it's supply chain analysis and speculation based on insider information and on and off the record conversations with journalists covering tech. At the end of this year, or early next, Apple may produce and ship a spec bump for the Vision Pro, call it v1.1 or 1.5. Then, about a year later, if all goes well, Apple will ship a "not-Pro" version that is expected to cut premium materials, the external display, and drop the optical stack down to something more like Quest's. Combined with a cut in Apple's margin, they should be able to get the price down to about $2,000, $1,999 to conform with Apple's pricing style guide. Then, about a year after that, if Apple's still pushing forward, they will likely ship the follow-up Vision Pro, call it v2. So, expect the Vision Pro 2 to arrive in late 2027 or early 2028. That's about a 4 year gap, closer to 5 years from the announcement. You can call that nay-saying, I call it analysis.