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I'd say Next.js is the opposite of a "batteries included" framework. No abstractions for ORM, background jobs, sending emails, managing attachments, web socket

I'd say Next.js is the opposite of a "batteries included" framework. No abstractions for ORM, background jobs, sending emails, managing attachments, web socket communication - all very basic stuff when dealing with a production application.

sankumsek 2y ago
Do you have a suggestion for a more Rails-esque framework (maybe Django)?
- graypegg 2y ago
  If we were keeping in the JS ecosystem, there’s Redwood [0] which has been around a while*. [0] https://redwoodjs.com/ https://redwoodjs.com/ * not comparable to Rails or Django’s definition of “a while” but it’s quite mature.
- Lio 2y ago
  By all means use Django if you specifically want to work in python but otherwise if you really want a Rails-esque framework why not just use full stack Rails? You get much out of the box with Rails 8 now like deployment, caching, job queue, Hotwire, Turbo Frames and mobile.
Onavo 2y ago
All these features are stateful or realtime. In a cloud/serverless world, they are all separate managed services ("compute/storage separation"). That's the trade-off of Next.js, greater productivity by standing on top of more hosted dependencies. Theoretically unlimited (within datacenter limits) scaling, bottlenecked only by your credit card.
luketheobscure 2y ago
It is a batteries included _front end_ framework. You don't need to worry about compiling, routing, code splitting, etc. Most of the things you described should be handled by the back end service
- caiohsramos 2y ago
  >It is a batteries included _front end_ framework. From the first page of Next.js docs: "Next.js is a React framework for building full-stack web applications" > You don't need to worry about compiling, routing, code splitting, etc IMO that's the least you'd expect from a web framework.
- Mystery-Machine 2y ago
  Next.js doesn't even have authorization. What does it have? Server-side rendering? Cool.
  - whstl 2y ago
    Hey, let's be fair here: Rails also doesn't have built-in authorization. You need something like Pundit or CanCanCan if you don't want to built it yourself. Also Rails only recently got authentication. For more than a decade you needed Devise or something else.
  - pcthrowaway 2y ago
    I mean it has a router (2 actually), and NextAuth seems to be becoming something of a standard for many Next devs. Meanwhile.. last I checked you still had to choose how you were going to roll your own auth in rails. Are people not often just installing bcrypt and adding a users table with their password hash? Or is there a generator for all that now? Anyway, I disagree with the idea that Next is Rails-like. Adonis is probably still the closest in the JS/node ecosystem, though Redwood might also serve a similar niche for the types of apps it works for. Next and the other "frontend metaframeworks" (as they're called now), are certainly much closer than the most popular choices 7 or 8 years ago (often cobbling together React and Express and an ORM like Prisma, making a bunch of other decisions, and then doing a bunch of the integration work by hand)
    - heidarb 2y ago
      Devise has made it easy to add auth to rails apps for many years now. More recently there is also the built in auth generator.

sankumsek 2y ago

Do you have a suggestion for a more Rails-esque framework (maybe Django)?

graypegg 2y ago
If we were keeping in the JS ecosystem, there’s Redwood [0] which has been around a while*. [0] https://redwoodjs.com/ https://redwoodjs.com/ * not comparable to Rails or Django’s definition of “a while” but it’s quite mature.
Lio 2y ago
By all means use Django if you specifically want to work in python but otherwise if you really want a Rails-esque framework why not just use full stack Rails? You get much out of the box with Rails 8 now like deployment, caching, job queue, Hotwire, Turbo Frames and mobile.

Onavo 2y ago

All these features are stateful or realtime. In a cloud/serverless world, they are all separate managed services ("compute/storage separation"). That's the trade-off of Next.js, greater productivity by standing on top of more hosted dependencies. Theoretically unlimited (within datacenter limits) scaling, bottlenecked only by your credit card.

luketheobscure 2y ago

It is a batteries included _front end_ framework. You don't need to worry about compiling, routing, code splitting, etc. Most of the things you described should be handled by the back end service

caiohsramos 2y ago
>It is a batteries included _front end_ framework. From the first page of Next.js docs: "Next.js is a React framework for building full-stack web applications" > You don't need to worry about compiling, routing, code splitting, etc IMO that's the least you'd expect from a web framework.
Mystery-Machine 2y ago
Next.js doesn't even have authorization. What does it have? Server-side rendering? Cool.
- whstl 2y ago
  Hey, let's be fair here: Rails also doesn't have built-in authorization. You need something like Pundit or CanCanCan if you don't want to built it yourself. Also Rails only recently got authentication. For more than a decade you needed Devise or something else.
- pcthrowaway 2y ago
  I mean it has a router (2 actually), and NextAuth seems to be becoming something of a standard for many Next devs. Meanwhile.. last I checked you still had to choose how you were going to roll your own auth in rails. Are people not often just installing bcrypt and adding a users table with their password hash? Or is there a generator for all that now? Anyway, I disagree with the idea that Next is Rails-like. Adonis is probably still the closest in the JS/node ecosystem, though Redwood might also serve a similar niche for the types of apps it works for. Next and the other "frontend metaframeworks" (as they're called now), are certainly much closer than the most popular choices 7 or 8 years ago (often cobbling together React and Express and an ORM like Prisma, making a bunch of other decisions, and then doing a bunch of the integration work by hand)
  - heidarb 2y ago
    Devise has made it easy to add auth to rails apps for many years now. More recently there is also the built in auth generator.