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"Nothing of their own" is a bit exaggerated. They have IRIS-T and SAMP/T, the latter being somewhat comparable to the Patriot. Beside American made aircrafts t

"Nothing of their own" is a bit exaggerated. They have IRIS-T and SAMP/T, the latter being somewhat comparable to the Patriot. Beside American made aircrafts there are also locally produced ones. I would be more worried by the lack of a proper equivalent of AWACS. In general though issue is not quality (at least compared to Russia) but quantity. Also if I was an European country I would be worried about the usability of any advanced weapon bought from our American friends: I wouldn't be surprised if, in case of confrontation between Europe and Russia, the guy in the Oval Office decided to block sales of spare parts in order to force war mongering Europeans to come to an agreement with peace-seeking Putin, or if his plutocratic friend decided to completely axe the project because "it sucks and drones are better"

bluGill 2y ago
This is the first I've heard of them, and Ukraine isn't demanding them. Either that means they are somehow worse than nothing, or the EU cannot supply them even though they exist on paper (based on planned increases I'm guessing the later). Remember military equipment that you don't have when needed is no better than fiction.
- throwaway494932 2y ago
  Both system have been sent to Ukraine and Ukraine would not mind having more of them, but as I said it is a matter of numbers (2 or 3 SAMP/T systems in Ukraine, out of about 15 totally produced). In the case of SAMP/T, the system is used just by Italy, France and Singapore, and as those countries are not as militarly active as the US, they don't have practical results to show to help with sales, which becomes a self-reinforcing (negative) trend. Both systems seem to have been successful in Ukraine up to now, and this may help with their sales.
- mopsi 2y ago
  What about Rafale and Gripen, have you ever heard about those?
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Those are airplanes, not air defense systems. Useful but for different purposes. The EU can't supply those in large numbers either though.
- apelapan 2y ago
  They are both (IRIS and SAMP) in Ukraine, doing an excellent job from what I read. I'm sure Ukraine are asking for them, as they are very expensive and it would be insane to gift the if not wanted. Many European countries chose Patriot for diplomatic reasons. The US used to favour those who bought their weapons. Not any more it seems, so I guess that mistake will not be repeated in the near term.

bluGill 2y ago

This is the first I've heard of them, and Ukraine isn't demanding them. Either that means they are somehow worse than nothing, or the EU cannot supply them even though they exist on paper (based on planned increases I'm guessing the later). Remember military equipment that you don't have when needed is no better than fiction.

throwaway494932 2y ago
Both system have been sent to Ukraine and Ukraine would not mind having more of them, but as I said it is a matter of numbers (2 or 3 SAMP/T systems in Ukraine, out of about 15 totally produced). In the case of SAMP/T, the system is used just by Italy, France and Singapore, and as those countries are not as militarly active as the US, they don't have practical results to show to help with sales, which becomes a self-reinforcing (negative) trend. Both systems seem to have been successful in Ukraine up to now, and this may help with their sales.
mopsi 2y ago
What about Rafale and Gripen, have you ever heard about those?
- bluGill 2y ago
  Those are airplanes, not air defense systems. Useful but for different purposes. The EU can't supply those in large numbers either though.
apelapan 2y ago
They are both (IRIS and SAMP) in Ukraine, doing an excellent job from what I read. I'm sure Ukraine are asking for them, as they are very expensive and it would be insane to gift the if not wanted. Many European countries chose Patriot for diplomatic reasons. The US used to favour those who bought their weapons. Not any more it seems, so I guess that mistake will not be repeated in the near term.