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A recall is a formal process for addressing a safety issue. It doesn't matter whether the safety issue is caused by hardware, software, or literally even a sin

A recall is a formal process for addressing a safety issue. It doesn't matter whether the safety issue is caused by hardware, software, or literally even a single line of text in an owners manual.

ProfessorZoom 2y ago
but the connotation people have with "recall" is having to bring your car somewhere for a physical repair
raincom 2y ago
Unlike Tesla, all other manufacturers ask car owners to bring their cars to local dealerships to update firmware or even do any mechanical changes. That's what "recall" is in the auto industry: schedule an appointment; take a day off; drop off a car; come back home (either uber/lyft or dealer provided cab); wait for a call from the dealership; then, pick up your car after everything is fixed according to recall. Compare the above with Tesla's "over-the-air" software updates for recall. So much better, even if one doesn't like Tesla vehicles or Musk.
- mbreese 2y ago
  For most software-related recalls, the most hassle I ever had was a service tech telling me that they updated my firmware during an oil change. So, in practice, it really was never that much of a hassle. That's admittedly not much of an option for Teslas...
  - slg 2y ago
    You're ignoring the difference in the Tesla update being pushed out to cars immediately, while the other manufacturer's update waited until you happened to bring your car in for servicing. How many miles did you continue to drive a car after it was deemed in some way unsafe enough for a recall?
    - kube-system 2y ago
      OTA updates are now widespread in the automotive industry.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - slg 2y ago
        The specific example that other user gave clearly did not have OTA updates. But like EVs in general, the industry wide move to more OTA updates was in large part due to the competition that Tesla presented forcing the rest of the industry to keep up.
        kube-system 2y ago
        I don't think people are buying vehicles based on the recall procedures. But Tesla did prove that recall costs could be reduced by doing OTA updates.
        slg 2y ago
        Maybe not recalls specifically, but the continued improvement of Tesla's software even after purchase is absolutely a selling point of their cars, especially in the era before widespread Android Auto and CarPlay when the software in cars was almost universally awful.
        kube-system 2y ago
        At least, as long as they actually are improvements. Not every OTA has been well received by owners. I don't have a problem with OTAs for bug fixes, but I'm personally weary about OTAs that change features. Tesla's tendency to treat their OTAs like their cars are an agile software project is not to my personal taste. CarPlay has been around long enough, does get OTA updates, and I personally prefer that model because it is strictly scoped to the infotainment, and won't change the way my windshield wipers work.
- mindslight 2y ago
  Every time there is yet another "recall" that turns out to be an automatic software update, I shudder at the idea of putting my life directly in the hands of "move fast and break everything" web culture. Continuously updating software is a terrible dynamic, especially for things that you want to be tools that just work. It discourages companies from doing QA/reliability engineering in lieu of a culture where could-have-been-foreseen bugs can just be discovered and fixed later. It makes it so that "owners" cannot trust their machines/systems to just keep working predictably, and have to accept whatever third party whims may dictate at a moment's notice. And generally such schemes result in hostile software that works against users - eg surveillance that serves the interests of the manufacturer.
- kube-system 2y ago
  That is not true. Other automakers also have OTA updates, even e.g. Chevy trucks [0]. And some safety fixes can be mailed to customers to DIY. I did one on my Honda -- there was a typo in the owners manual on a safety critical statement. Honda mailed me a sticker and told me where to place it. 0: https://www.gm-trucks.com/gm-recall-brake-warning-light-failure-2024/ https://www.gm-trucks.com/gm-recall-brake-warning-light-fail...

A recall is a formal process for addressing a safety issue. It doesn't matter whether the safety issue is caused by hardware, software, or literally even a single line of text in an owners manual.

ProfessorZoom 2y ago

but the connotation people have with "recall" is having to bring your car somewhere for a physical repair

raincom 2y ago

Unlike Tesla, all other manufacturers ask car owners to bring their cars to local dealerships to update firmware or even do any mechanical changes. That's what "recall" is in the auto industry: schedule an appointment; take a day off; drop off a car; come back home (either uber/lyft or dealer provided cab); wait for a call from the dealership; then, pick up your car after everything is fixed according to recall. Compare the above with Tesla's "over-the-air" software updates for recall. So much better, even if one doesn't like Tesla vehicles or Musk.

mbreese 2y ago
For most software-related recalls, the most hassle I ever had was a service tech telling me that they updated my firmware during an oil change. So, in practice, it really was never that much of a hassle. That's admittedly not much of an option for Teslas...
- slg 2y ago
  You're ignoring the difference in the Tesla update being pushed out to cars immediately, while the other manufacturer's update waited until you happened to bring your car in for servicing. How many miles did you continue to drive a car after it was deemed in some way unsafe enough for a recall?
  - kube-system 2y ago
    OTA updates are now widespread in the automotive industry.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - slg 2y ago
      The specific example that other user gave clearly did not have OTA updates. But like EVs in general, the industry wide move to more OTA updates was in large part due to the competition that Tesla presented forcing the rest of the industry to keep up.
      - kube-system 2y ago
        I don't think people are buying vehicles based on the recall procedures. But Tesla did prove that recall costs could be reduced by doing OTA updates.
        slg 2y ago
        Maybe not recalls specifically, but the continued improvement of Tesla's software even after purchase is absolutely a selling point of their cars, especially in the era before widespread Android Auto and CarPlay when the software in cars was almost universally awful.
        kube-system 2y ago
        At least, as long as they actually are improvements. Not every OTA has been well received by owners. I don't have a problem with OTAs for bug fixes, but I'm personally weary about OTAs that change features. Tesla's tendency to treat their OTAs like their cars are an agile software project is not to my personal taste. CarPlay has been around long enough, does get OTA updates, and I personally prefer that model because it is strictly scoped to the infotainment, and won't change the way my windshield wipers work.
mindslight 2y ago
Every time there is yet another "recall" that turns out to be an automatic software update, I shudder at the idea of putting my life directly in the hands of "move fast and break everything" web culture. Continuously updating software is a terrible dynamic, especially for things that you want to be tools that just work. It discourages companies from doing QA/reliability engineering in lieu of a culture where could-have-been-foreseen bugs can just be discovered and fixed later. It makes it so that "owners" cannot trust their machines/systems to just keep working predictably, and have to accept whatever third party whims may dictate at a moment's notice. And generally such schemes result in hostile software that works against users - eg surveillance that serves the interests of the manufacturer.
kube-system 2y ago
That is not true. Other automakers also have OTA updates, even e.g. Chevy trucks [0]. And some safety fixes can be mailed to customers to DIY. I did one on my Honda -- there was a typo in the owners manual on a safety critical statement. Honda mailed me a sticker and told me where to place it. 0: https://www.gm-trucks.com/gm-recall-brake-warning-light-failure-2024/ https://www.gm-trucks.com/gm-recall-brake-warning-light-fail...