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This has nothing to do with his point, which is that its a software update, not a typical 'recall'

by leesec 2y ago

soared 2y ago
It lends credence to how severe the language needs to be. A car recall is very serious and implies people need to take action. A software update is meh, I’ll look at that later. Seemingly a Tesla software update is more aligned aligned with “recall - update your stuff” rather than “update - do this whenever”
- reverendsteveii 2y ago
  I've had several cars subject to recall and every one of them was "go ahead and bring it into the dealer whenever, show them this notice and they'll fix it". I imagine there could be some "drop everything and get this fixed right now" issues but I think the idea that every recall is a drop everything issue is more in alignment with your intuition than the reality on the ground.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    It's more if I own the car "pink slip" there is not really a way to compel me to get a recall repair. Obviously this is different, now, because of some cards and models for the car ECU.
    - genewitch 2y ago
      s/some/SIM/
  - AlotOfReading 2y ago
    A car with an active recall is in violation of FMVSS and can't legally be sold by dealerships (or the manufacturer) until the recall is fixed. It's very much a "drop everything" issue for regulated parties in the automotive space. It's only as a consumer that you get to take your time and deal with it whenever, which I think is a very reasonable tradeoff.
zardo 2y ago
It does if you look at what 'recall' means legally.
- niceice 2y ago
  This is only because they still haven't bothered to update to the internet enabled world.
  - nkozyra 2y ago
    > This is only because they still haven't bothered to update I'd argue the opposite. As cars are largely and increasingly controlled by software, these issues have as much if not more effect than a lot of mechanical recalls. It's honestly a bit forward-thinking that given this software fixes are also classified as recalls.
  - surfpel 2y ago
    Cars still kill people in the internet world, unfortunately.
  - zardo 2y ago
    They update by interpreting new situations with logical extensions of the existing rules. NHTSA can order a "recall" for a safety defect, would people prefer they say that car makers can't satisfy a "recall" order except by returning the car to the location it was built?
- Moto7451 2y ago
  Some, but perhaps not all, car companies tend to be less than friendly with recalls. My Porsche has never had fewer than three recalls and they really turn the screws on owners. My Taycan has faulty brake lines that have been ordered but magically not found when I bring my car in for the recall repair. This has happened three times. The working theory from owners is the brake lines are ending up in Certified Preowned Cars since they can’t sell them without the parts. Usually by the time the NHTSA has them send a second notice the parts magically appear in stock. The same has been true for the NEMA 14-50 plug recall (Running 40A over 10AWG wire - setting walls on fire, melting outlets, melting plugs) and a few others. Porsche has been reasonably good about software fixes, presumably since they don’t cost as much money. They are not great at applying them and not much is done OTA. Until they do a nicer job here we hopefully will see the NHTSA continue to broadcast these recalls and embarrass these companies into action. When you have issues getting things fixed you can complain to the NHTSA and they do follow up.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kube-system 2y ago
A recall is a formal process for addressing a safety issue. It doesn't matter whether the safety issue is caused by hardware, software, or literally even a single line of text in an owners manual.
- ProfessorZoom 2y ago
  but the connotation people have with "recall" is having to bring your car somewhere for a physical repair
- raincom 2y ago
  Unlike Tesla, all other manufacturers ask car owners to bring their cars to local dealerships to update firmware or even do any mechanical changes. That's what "recall" is in the auto industry: schedule an appointment; take a day off; drop off a car; come back home (either uber/lyft or dealer provided cab); wait for a call from the dealership; then, pick up your car after everything is fixed according to recall. Compare the above with Tesla's "over-the-air" software updates for recall. So much better, even if one doesn't like Tesla vehicles or Musk.
  - mbreese 2y ago
    For most software-related recalls, the most hassle I ever had was a service tech telling me that they updated my firmware during an oil change. So, in practice, it really was never that much of a hassle. That's admittedly not much of an option for Teslas...
    - slg 2y ago
      You're ignoring the difference in the Tesla update being pushed out to cars immediately, while the other manufacturer's update waited until you happened to bring your car in for servicing. How many miles did you continue to drive a car after it was deemed in some way unsafe enough for a recall?
      - kube-system 2y ago
watwut 2y ago
That is what recall is.

This has nothing to do with his point, which is that its a software update, not a typical 'recall'

by leesec 2y ago

This has nothing to do with his point, which is that its a software update, not a typical 'recall'

It lends credence to how severe the language needs to be. A car recall is very serious and implies people need to take action. A software update is meh, I’ll look at that later. Seemingly a Tesla software update is more aligned aligned with “recall - update your stuff” rather than “update - do this whenever”

reverendsteveii 2y ago
I've had several cars subject to recall and every one of them was "go ahead and bring it into the dealer whenever, show them this notice and they'll fix it". I imagine there could be some "drop everything and get this fixed right now" issues but I think the idea that every recall is a drop everything issue is more in alignment with your intuition than the reality on the ground.
- genewitch 2y ago
  It's more if I own the car "pink slip" there is not really a way to compel me to get a recall repair. Obviously this is different, now, because of some cards and models for the car ECU.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    s/some/SIM/
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  A car with an active recall is in violation of FMVSS and can't legally be sold by dealerships (or the manufacturer) until the recall is fixed. It's very much a "drop everything" issue for regulated parties in the automotive space. It's only as a consumer that you get to take your time and deal with it whenever, which I think is a very reasonable tradeoff.

zardo 2y ago

It does if you look at what 'recall' means legally.

niceice 2y ago
This is only because they still haven't bothered to update to the internet enabled world.
- nkozyra 2y ago
  > This is only because they still haven't bothered to update I'd argue the opposite. As cars are largely and increasingly controlled by software, these issues have as much if not more effect than a lot of mechanical recalls. It's honestly a bit forward-thinking that given this software fixes are also classified as recalls.
- surfpel 2y ago
  Cars still kill people in the internet world, unfortunately.
- zardo 2y ago
  They update by interpreting new situations with logical extensions of the existing rules. NHTSA can order a "recall" for a safety defect, would people prefer they say that car makers can't satisfy a "recall" order except by returning the car to the location it was built?
Moto7451 2y ago
Some, but perhaps not all, car companies tend to be less than friendly with recalls. My Porsche has never had fewer than three recalls and they really turn the screws on owners. My Taycan has faulty brake lines that have been ordered but magically not found when I bring my car in for the recall repair. This has happened three times. The working theory from owners is the brake lines are ending up in Certified Preowned Cars since they can’t sell them without the parts. Usually by the time the NHTSA has them send a second notice the parts magically appear in stock. The same has been true for the NEMA 14-50 plug recall (Running 40A over 10AWG wire - setting walls on fire, melting outlets, melting plugs) and a few others. Porsche has been reasonably good about software fixes, presumably since they don’t cost as much money. They are not great at applying them and not much is done OTA. Until they do a nicer job here we hopefully will see the NHTSA continue to broadcast these recalls and embarrass these companies into action. When you have issues getting things fixed you can complain to the NHTSA and they do follow up.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

kube-system 2y ago

A recall is a formal process for addressing a safety issue. It doesn't matter whether the safety issue is caused by hardware, software, or literally even a single line of text in an owners manual.

ProfessorZoom 2y ago
but the connotation people have with "recall" is having to bring your car somewhere for a physical repair
raincom 2y ago
Unlike Tesla, all other manufacturers ask car owners to bring their cars to local dealerships to update firmware or even do any mechanical changes. That's what "recall" is in the auto industry: schedule an appointment; take a day off; drop off a car; come back home (either uber/lyft or dealer provided cab); wait for a call from the dealership; then, pick up your car after everything is fixed according to recall. Compare the above with Tesla's "over-the-air" software updates for recall. So much better, even if one doesn't like Tesla vehicles or Musk.
- mbreese 2y ago
  For most software-related recalls, the most hassle I ever had was a service tech telling me that they updated my firmware during an oil change. So, in practice, it really was never that much of a hassle. That's admittedly not much of an option for Teslas...
  - slg 2y ago
    You're ignoring the difference in the Tesla update being pushed out to cars immediately, while the other manufacturer's update waited until you happened to bring your car in for servicing. How many miles did you continue to drive a car after it was deemed in some way unsafe enough for a recall?
    - kube-system 2y ago

watwut 2y ago

That is what recall is.