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I quite like the idea of a united EU army. It's something that's been floated quite a bit recently.

card_zero 2y ago
By Zelensky, I think. What? I'm pretty sure he said that. Yeah, here it is: 'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia, says Zelensky https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo
- datameta 2y ago
  Yes, he spoke on it at the Munich Security Conference, to frequent applause
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  Yes (I don't know why you were downvoted), and others, but unfortunately I find it highly unlikely to happen. Or at least, it'll only happen when it's already too late, and Russia starts steamrolling more of Europe while the US does nothing (or actively supports it - the current admin is highly pro Russia). The US is no longer a reliable ally to the EU or NATO. The EU must be able to protect itself.
  - lawn 2y ago
    Russia didn't even manage to steamroll Ukraine at the start of the war, when Ukraine didn't have the support of the west. They can cause an enormous amount of lifes to be lost, but winning against nevermind steamrolling EU is farfetched.
    - Sabinus 2y ago
      I could be wrong, but imo the EU is looking more rickety than the Russian Federation. It's not far fetched for the future to feature a militarised and experienced in war Russia starts breaking apart the EU and nibbling parts off. And by rickety, I mean political cohesion.
atoav 2y ago
Zelinsky was by no means the first, I heard talks of this since the crimean annexation.
wolvesechoes 2y ago
"I quite like the idea of a united EU army." Won't happen, at least not in any meaningful form. Baltics or Poland are existentially threatened by Russia, Spain or even Germany are not, even if Russia can do a limited damage to them. What is supposed to create "unity" in that regard? What would force Spain to contribute as much as, let's say, Finland? We can see even now, with all these US threats, not every NATO country was willing to increase its spending on military. And even more importantly, who is going to command such EU army? Commission?
- boredatoms 2y ago
  I think it has to be the french president, they’re the only EU country with nukes (I dont see UK as EU at this point)
  - wolvesechoes 2y ago
    Well, Macron is probably the only European leader that, declaratively at least, would like to push for more agency for Europe. Issue is that, for now, he offers only words. He already is trying to back down from the idea of sending troops to Ukraine (and number that was proposed was pathetic, considering intensity of this conflict). Nukes are but a one thing, useful only in specific circumstances, but not sufficient. It is unrealistic to expect France using nukes if Russia attacks Lithuania, for example. Stakes are not justifying such escalation. European countries lack conventional means: UAV, artillery, missiles. And soldiers.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      At this moment, the Russian military is very weakened. Europe doesn't have overwhelming force but could easily kick Russia out of Ukraine. (Except it won't for political reasons.)
      - wolvesechoes 2y ago
        Yes, it is very weakened, but the rest of your post... Sorry, but it is the same kind of hopium that people keep overdosing since 2022.
gizajob 2y ago
Yes, united behind a strong upright leader, or even führer.
blitzar 2y ago
I would like to see unified command and control facilities, interoperability agreements, combined purchasing and a within EU military industrial plan. Most of this already exists in the form of NATO and can be repurposed for near $0. There is no need for anything more, nor are the institutions really designed for a single president / general to direct everyone in a conflict. Putting in place all the capabilities to work together in a conflict should be done however.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
trinix912 2y ago
I, on the other hand (as an EU citizen), would like to not be drafted to fight in a conflict by two random governments of countries I don't live in and share nothing ideologically with. Sure, we can all do taxes together, share the currency, etc. I know that NATO already is that way, but the EU is not a military alliance and should never be.
- preisschild 2y ago
  I'm also an EU citizen and heavily in favor of an EU-military. We could be a lot stronger with the same amount of money invested through economies-of-scale. We can either take the chance to become a superpower or we will be taken over by aggressive countries like Russia.
- mopsi 2y ago
  > I, on the other hand (as an EU citizen), would like to not be drafted to fight in a conflict by two random governments of countries I don't live in and share nothing ideologically with. ... because that worked out so well for Europe when Poland was invaded in 1939 and everyone looked the other way? After the war, top German generals like Franz Halder, the Chief of the Army General Staff, revealed that their actual strength had been much smaller than the British and the French had feared. Anglo-French forces could have outnumbered them 1:5. The generals speculated that a well-coordinated allied attack from France could have defeated Germany in just a few weeks. Imagine Europe if Hitler had been hanged in 1939!

By Zelensky, I think. What? I'm pretty sure he said that. Yeah, here it is: 'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia, says Zelensky https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgl27x74wpo

datameta 2y ago
Yes, he spoke on it at the Munich Security Conference, to frequent applause
Trasmatta 2y ago
Yes (I don't know why you were downvoted), and others, but unfortunately I find it highly unlikely to happen. Or at least, it'll only happen when it's already too late, and Russia starts steamrolling more of Europe while the US does nothing (or actively supports it - the current admin is highly pro Russia). The US is no longer a reliable ally to the EU or NATO. The EU must be able to protect itself.
- lawn 2y ago
  Russia didn't even manage to steamroll Ukraine at the start of the war, when Ukraine didn't have the support of the west. They can cause an enormous amount of lifes to be lost, but winning against nevermind steamrolling EU is farfetched.
  - Sabinus 2y ago
    I could be wrong, but imo the EU is looking more rickety than the Russian Federation. It's not far fetched for the future to feature a militarised and experienced in war Russia starts breaking apart the EU and nibbling parts off. And by rickety, I mean political cohesion.

atoav 2y ago

Zelinsky was by no means the first, I heard talks of this since the crimean annexation.

wolvesechoes 2y ago

"I quite like the idea of a united EU army." Won't happen, at least not in any meaningful form. Baltics or Poland are existentially threatened by Russia, Spain or even Germany are not, even if Russia can do a limited damage to them. What is supposed to create "unity" in that regard? What would force Spain to contribute as much as, let's say, Finland? We can see even now, with all these US threats, not every NATO country was willing to increase its spending on military. And even more importantly, who is going to command such EU army? Commission?

boredatoms 2y ago
I think it has to be the french president, they’re the only EU country with nukes (I dont see UK as EU at this point)
- wolvesechoes 2y ago
  Well, Macron is probably the only European leader that, declaratively at least, would like to push for more agency for Europe. Issue is that, for now, he offers only words. He already is trying to back down from the idea of sending troops to Ukraine (and number that was proposed was pathetic, considering intensity of this conflict). Nukes are but a one thing, useful only in specific circumstances, but not sufficient. It is unrealistic to expect France using nukes if Russia attacks Lithuania, for example. Stakes are not justifying such escalation. European countries lack conventional means: UAV, artillery, missiles. And soldiers.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    At this moment, the Russian military is very weakened. Europe doesn't have overwhelming force but could easily kick Russia out of Ukraine. (Except it won't for political reasons.)
    - wolvesechoes 2y ago
      Yes, it is very weakened, but the rest of your post... Sorry, but it is the same kind of hopium that people keep overdosing since 2022.

gizajob 2y ago

Yes, united behind a strong upright leader, or even führer.

blitzar 2y ago

I would like to see unified command and control facilities, interoperability agreements, combined purchasing and a within EU military industrial plan. Most of this already exists in the form of NATO and can be repurposed for near $0. There is no need for anything more, nor are the institutions really designed for a single president / general to direct everyone in a conflict. Putting in place all the capabilities to work together in a conflict should be done however.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

trinix912 2y ago

I, on the other hand (as an EU citizen), would like to not be drafted to fight in a conflict by two random governments of countries I don't live in and share nothing ideologically with. Sure, we can all do taxes together, share the currency, etc. I know that NATO already is that way, but the EU is not a military alliance and should never be.

preisschild 2y ago
I'm also an EU citizen and heavily in favor of an EU-military. We could be a lot stronger with the same amount of money invested through economies-of-scale. We can either take the chance to become a superpower or we will be taken over by aggressive countries like Russia.
mopsi 2y ago
> I, on the other hand (as an EU citizen), would like to not be drafted to fight in a conflict by two random governments of countries I don't live in and share nothing ideologically with. ... because that worked out so well for Europe when Poland was invaded in 1939 and everyone looked the other way? After the war, top German generals like Franz Halder, the Chief of the Army General Staff, revealed that their actual strength had been much smaller than the British and the French had feared. Anglo-French forces could have outnumbered them 1:5. The generals speculated that a well-coordinated allied attack from France could have defeated Germany in just a few weeks. Imagine Europe if Hitler had been hanged in 1939!