4 ms·

I can understand the economical argument. If the US wants to disengage from NATO and Europe it can do so orderly. But the way this handled makes the retreat fro

by mongol 2y ago

I can understand the economical argument. If the US wants to disengage from NATO and Europe it can do so orderly. But the way this handled makes the retreat from Afghanistan look exemplary in comparison. In addition. Extorting a country that is victim of military aggression. Going to bed with a bloodthirsty dictator. That has nothing to do with the defense-spending arguments. That is just amoral, to put it lightly.

pjc50 2y ago
The simple explanation is that Russia overwhelmingly won their war of propaganda and bribery. The American news organizations and public welcomed it because it was "anti-woke". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates...
- rayiner 2y ago
  How old are you? American liberals have been complaining that US neocons have been trying to relive the Cold War my entire adult lifetime. Obama was the one mocking Romney for his obsession with Russia. Trump is just an Al Gore liberal on this front: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-oct-24-mn-41201-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-oct-24-mn-41201... It was plausible to say the Soviet Union was a threat to America because it sought to export communism worldwide. Nobody thinks Russia has any such designs.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    It's quite remarkable how the parties flipped on this. I wonder if you could pin it down to a specific date? Perhaps it really was just Euromaidan. The NRA getting infiltrated happened in or before 2015: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-2015-moscow-trip-wasnt-official-emails-photos/story?id=60715741 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-2015-moscow-trip-wasnt-o... => https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/26/maria-butina-sentenced-18-months-russia-nra https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/26/maria-butina...
    - rayiner 2y ago
      It’s not remarkable. The Reagan GOP was a coalition of capitalists, religious conservatives, and neocons united by anti-communism. The Soviet Union collapsed 35 years ago. Russia no longer poses any threat to capitalism or Christianity, leaving just the neocons. But neocons are liberals, and so have migrated back to the Democratic Party with the other liberals. It’s the reverse of the what happened when they left the Democratic Party in the first place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

by mongol 2y ago

pjc50 2y ago

The simple explanation is that Russia overwhelmingly won their war of propaganda and bribery. The American news organizations and public welcomed it because it was "anti-woke". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates...

rayiner 2y ago
How old are you? American liberals have been complaining that US neocons have been trying to relive the Cold War my entire adult lifetime. Obama was the one mocking Romney for his obsession with Russia. Trump is just an Al Gore liberal on this front: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-oct-24-mn-41201-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-oct-24-mn-41201... It was plausible to say the Soviet Union was a threat to America because it sought to export communism worldwide. Nobody thinks Russia has any such designs.
- pjc50 2y ago
  It's quite remarkable how the parties flipped on this. I wonder if you could pin it down to a specific date? Perhaps it really was just Euromaidan. The NRA getting infiltrated happened in or before 2015: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-2015-moscow-trip-wasnt-official-emails-photos/story?id=60715741 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/nra-2015-moscow-trip-wasnt-o... => https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/26/maria-butina-sentenced-18-months-russia-nra https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/26/maria-butina...
  - rayiner 2y ago
    It’s not remarkable. The Reagan GOP was a coalition of capitalists, religious conservatives, and neocons united by anti-communism. The Soviet Union collapsed 35 years ago. Russia no longer poses any threat to capitalism or Christianity, leaving just the neocons. But neocons are liberals, and so have migrated back to the Democratic Party with the other liberals. It’s the reverse of the what happened when they left the Democratic Party in the first place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism