5 ms·

If you download one book you're a criminal. If they download millions of books, that's just business.

by arboles 2y ago

jcmp 2y ago
you are not. Thats their point
- close04 2y ago
  Their point is that they are not.
  - arboles 2y ago
    It would set the precedent for everyone. The real difference is that they can beg the question and people like Aaron Schwartz couldn't.
    - Mindwipe 2y ago
      Aaron Schwartz's lawyer could have posed exactly the same claim. It wouldn't have succeeded, just like this won't. Lawyers will deploy any possible argument, just in case, even if it has a 0.1% chance of working because why wouldn't you?
      - arboles 2y ago
        On the off chance the defense succeeds I'm proven right, if the defense fails, I'm still proven right as the fine will only be a minor set back for Meta.
    - goodpoint 2y ago
      No, this is a case of "rules for thee but not for me".
- latexr 2y ago
  That is definitely not their point. Their point is, quite simply, “don’t punish us, bro”. They don’t give a rat’s ass about the law in general or what it means for other people, they just want to make sure they specifically can do what they please without repercussion.
  - jcmp 2y ago
    I think they try to argue around the diffrence of sharing activly (=illegal) and downloading (=valid) with this argument it does not matter if you download one book or 1 million books
st_goliath 2y ago
> If they download millions of books ... ... as a private individual, you are toast. I think the more appropriate quote to paraphrase would be one from Dennis Hopper's character in the film Speed (1994): "Oh, no. Poor people are pirates, Jack. We are tech innovators!"
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  When did he say that? I watched it recently, and don't recall that line at all...
  - st_goliath 2y ago
    The scene where Jack climbs down the hole under the garbage can into the subway, having figured out the ransom money has moved. He tries to hold up Payne, who reveals he's holding Annie hostage. Here: https://youtu.be/ntTY_Q005Ic?t=128 https://youtu.be/ntTY_Q005Ic?t=128
    - craftkiller 2y ago
      So he didn't say it. "paraphrase" is the wrong word because you changed the meaning behind what he said. > A paraphrase or rephrase is the rendering of the same text in different words without losing the meaning of the text itself
    - voidUpdate 2y ago
      Oh, I thought that was the quote before paraphrasing, not after
greyw 2y ago
Depends on your jurisdiction. In Switzerland, downloading games, books, music, movies etc. for personal use is always legal even if the copy is "pirated". Work just needs to be published in any form. Dont know any other country where it works like this.
- delroth 2y ago
  This is a common misconception: there are some exceptions for certain types of media, but for example downloading copyrighted software (including games) without authorization is not legal in Switzerland. And some of those exceptions are more constrained than others.
  - aurea 2y ago
    Can you point to any official document which states it is illegal? Or any document which mentions any exceptions?
    - throw101010 2y ago
      Art. 19, Paragraph 4 of the Copyright Act (CopA [1]). The article lists the "Published works [that] may be used for private use" and that paragraph closes it with: > This Article does not apply to computer programs. [1] https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1993/1798_1798_1798/en#art_19 https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1993/1798_1798_1798/en#ar...
- mnau 2y ago
  Czechia. In theory, there is a fee for every media (e.g.HDD) that is paid to OSA (authors organization) and OSA pays to authors through some distribution scheme. Since user already paid fee, downloading is OK. This is mostly leftover before computers were a thing (think cassettes and paper copiers). In practice, it's a racket and OSA is a mafia that doesn't pay to anyone. Also, the fees are rather small considering the the purpose (I think it's capped at ~$5 per device), but since authors don't actually get money from it(OSA practices) , it doesn't really matter. Anyway, downloading audiovisual media is fine, seeding is not.

If you download one book you're a criminal. If they download millions of books, that's just business.

jcmp 2y ago

you are not. Thats their point

close04 2y ago
Their point is that they are not.
- arboles 2y ago
  It would set the precedent for everyone. The real difference is that they can beg the question and people like Aaron Schwartz couldn't.
  - Mindwipe 2y ago
    Aaron Schwartz's lawyer could have posed exactly the same claim. It wouldn't have succeeded, just like this won't. Lawyers will deploy any possible argument, just in case, even if it has a 0.1% chance of working because why wouldn't you?
    - arboles 2y ago
      On the off chance the defense succeeds I'm proven right, if the defense fails, I'm still proven right as the fine will only be a minor set back for Meta.
  - goodpoint 2y ago
    No, this is a case of "rules for thee but not for me".
latexr 2y ago
That is definitely not their point. Their point is, quite simply, “don’t punish us, bro”. They don’t give a rat’s ass about the law in general or what it means for other people, they just want to make sure they specifically can do what they please without repercussion.
- jcmp 2y ago
  I think they try to argue around the diffrence of sharing activly (=illegal) and downloading (=valid) with this argument it does not matter if you download one book or 1 million books

st_goliath 2y ago

> If they download millions of books ... ... as a private individual, you are toast. I think the more appropriate quote to paraphrase would be one from Dennis Hopper's character in the film Speed (1994): "Oh, no. Poor people are pirates, Jack. We are tech innovators!"

voidUpdate 2y ago
When did he say that? I watched it recently, and don't recall that line at all...
- st_goliath 2y ago
  The scene where Jack climbs down the hole under the garbage can into the subway, having figured out the ransom money has moved. He tries to hold up Payne, who reveals he's holding Annie hostage. Here: https://youtu.be/ntTY_Q005Ic?t=128 https://youtu.be/ntTY_Q005Ic?t=128
  - craftkiller 2y ago
    So he didn't say it. "paraphrase" is the wrong word because you changed the meaning behind what he said. > A paraphrase or rephrase is the rendering of the same text in different words without losing the meaning of the text itself
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    Oh, I thought that was the quote before paraphrasing, not after

greyw 2y ago

Depends on your jurisdiction. In Switzerland, downloading games, books, music, movies etc. for personal use is always legal even if the copy is "pirated". Work just needs to be published in any form. Dont know any other country where it works like this.

delroth 2y ago
This is a common misconception: there are some exceptions for certain types of media, but for example downloading copyrighted software (including games) without authorization is not legal in Switzerland. And some of those exceptions are more constrained than others.
- aurea 2y ago
  Can you point to any official document which states it is illegal? Or any document which mentions any exceptions?
  - throw101010 2y ago
    Art. 19, Paragraph 4 of the Copyright Act (CopA [1]). The article lists the "Published works [that] may be used for private use" and that paragraph closes it with: > This Article does not apply to computer programs. [1] https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1993/1798_1798_1798/en#art_19 https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1993/1798_1798_1798/en#ar...
mnau 2y ago
Czechia. In theory, there is a fee for every media (e.g.HDD) that is paid to OSA (authors organization) and OSA pays to authors through some distribution scheme. Since user already paid fee, downloading is OK. This is mostly leftover before computers were a thing (think cassettes and paper copiers). In practice, it's a racket and OSA is a mafia that doesn't pay to anyone. Also, the fees are rather small considering the the purpose (I think it's capped at ~$5 per device), but since authors don't actually get money from it(OSA practices) , it doesn't really matter. Anyway, downloading audiovisual media is fine, seeding is not.