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I think this really isn't about AI, but rather about the good self discipline as well as the willingness and perseverance to explore deeply. I have seen people

by kccqzy 2y ago

I think this really isn't about AI, but rather about the good self discipline as well as the willingness and perseverance to explore deeply. I have seen people who learned to code before AI, and yet because they don't bother to ask themselves another layer of "why" they continue to have a superficial understanding of everything. And I have no doubt that the truly excellent programmer will understand the whole system even if they learned coding after AI. > I had the habit of not copying code from YouTube tutorials This is what makes all the difference. If you know you should not blindly copy code from YouTube tutorials, you also know you should not copy code from AI output, and if you were to be born in my generation you would also know you should not copy code blindly from a textbook. Kudos to the author though—I think this person has the right personality to become a good programmer regardless of whether they wrote their first line of code before or after the age of LLMs.

globular-toast 2y ago
Yes, and the persistence to figure things out when they're not working the way you think they should. So many people just go and ask for help the moment things aren't working and if they still can't get an answer they just give up. It doesn't matter if you're coming to me or ChatGPT, if I just tell you what's wrong you never learn.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
layman51 2y ago
Maybe I’m missing the nuance here but I don’t understand the arguments against “blindly copying” in the parent post. I agree it is probably not good to give up like the sibling post is saying, but at some stages you kind of do need to copy code blindly, no? You shouldn’t copy if you’re a student. But if someone is a working Salesforce Administrator trying to learn Apex as a first programming language, I imagine a lot of the introductory code you will see around Apex Triggers will make no sense but you’ll have to blindly copy it if you want to follow along. Some learners will get frustrated with that teaching approach because they’ll be very curious about the syntax. I imagine at that point they’ll just consult other resources to get their questions answered.
- jasonjmcghee 2y ago
  Another distinction folks are making in other threads in this post is - in the situation where you are copying code, not using Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v but instead looking at the code and typing it out. The thinking goes, you'll learn much more quickly if you go through the motions of typing it out.
brailsafe 2y ago
Ironically, as a more experienced programmer, I regret not manually writing every line as I read a book or watched a tutorial, and deliberately do that now. I compare it to thinking I can learn something by listening to a podcast; I can learn about something from a podcast, but to learn it at even a shallow level, I have to have at least more the most shallow interaction with it. Write the code, do it the hard way, then once you've done that, use whatever you want to help you do so more productively. This has coloured my perspective on many things, and has led to me distancing myself from "information" media, because it's often fake learning that costs you the time you could spend actually learning. I don't know where AI sits yet in relation to this, but my sense is that in moments where I'm trying to understand something at a deeper level, it's more fruitful to think about it as hard as possible first for at least a while before looking for the answer. It's not productive in an output per hour sense, but it requires a different intensity of energy that feels like better personal growth.

by kccqzy 2y ago

globular-toast 2y ago

Yes, and the persistence to figure things out when they're not working the way you think they should. So many people just go and ask for help the moment things aren't working and if they still can't get an answer they just give up. It doesn't matter if you're coming to me or ChatGPT, if I just tell you what's wrong you never learn.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

layman51 2y ago

Maybe I’m missing the nuance here but I don’t understand the arguments against “blindly copying” in the parent post. I agree it is probably not good to give up like the sibling post is saying, but at some stages you kind of do need to copy code blindly, no? You shouldn’t copy if you’re a student. But if someone is a working Salesforce Administrator trying to learn Apex as a first programming language, I imagine a lot of the introductory code you will see around Apex Triggers will make no sense but you’ll have to blindly copy it if you want to follow along. Some learners will get frustrated with that teaching approach because they’ll be very curious about the syntax. I imagine at that point they’ll just consult other resources to get their questions answered.

jasonjmcghee 2y ago
Another distinction folks are making in other threads in this post is - in the situation where you are copying code, not using Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v but instead looking at the code and typing it out. The thinking goes, you'll learn much more quickly if you go through the motions of typing it out.

brailsafe 2y ago

Ironically, as a more experienced programmer, I regret not manually writing every line as I read a book or watched a tutorial, and deliberately do that now. I compare it to thinking I can learn something by listening to a podcast; I can learn about something from a podcast, but to learn it at even a shallow level, I have to have at least more the most shallow interaction with it. Write the code, do it the hard way, then once you've done that, use whatever you want to help you do so more productively. This has coloured my perspective on many things, and has led to me distancing myself from "information" media, because it's often fake learning that costs you the time you could spend actually learning. I don't know where AI sits yet in relation to this, but my sense is that in moments where I'm trying to understand something at a deeper level, it's more fruitful to think about it as hard as possible first for at least a while before looking for the answer. It's not productive in an output per hour sense, but it requires a different intensity of energy that feels like better personal growth.