3 ms·

My Dad's friend is a retired fire chief, my Dad told me he makes $300K a year in retirement! That is beyond insane as it ends up costing (with a retirement at s

My Dad's friend is a retired fire chief, my Dad told me he makes $300K a year in retirement! That is beyond insane as it ends up costing (with a retirement at say 55) about 30 or so years of payments which adds up to $9M for the reminder of his life. This is clearly not sustainable and when you add up social security and 401k it ends up with a kings ransom for a public servant.

ryandrake 2y ago
What about solidarity? Instead of criticizing another worker’s situation as “insane”, we should be asking: why can’t we also have this kind of retirement package? They’ve successfully pitted worker vs worker. I don’t think that retired fire chief’s (or school teachers') retirement is what’s wrong: what’s wrong is that most of us will not have a retirement that good. Why is that? It is possible to answer that question without tearing down someone else’s situation.
- chneu 2y ago
  Because it isn't sustainable. Only a select few can acquire that kind of retirement and it's borrowed from everyone else. It's selfish. The pension generations over spent and borrowed heavily to fund their retirement and lifestyles. The subsequent generations pay for that. It's selfish and short sighted.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    It's more sustainable than many other business practices. Nobody is worried about sustainability when CEOs are making hundreds of times more money than the average employee at the same company or when shareholders relentlessly enshitify everything so that they can keep getting more and more profit quarter after quarter. pension plans were not only sustainable since they started in 1875, but the economy thrived and companies grew powerful while workers had them. Historically, some companies tried to screw over their workers and mismanaged their pension funds, resulting in problems down the line, but that was mostly greed.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Funny how, when they talk about executive compensation, platinum-plated perks, corporate parties with lobster stacks and vodka fountains for the top brass, and of course, dividends and stock buybacks--not a peep about how sustainable it is. But when you talk about pensions and employee salaries, all of a sudden, everyone's so concerned about it being sustainable...
- autoexec 2y ago
  It comes from crab bucket mentality and a pervasive fear that somebody somewhere might be getting something they don't "deserve". Everyone who gives a company years of their life should be able to comfortably retire after decades of service, but companies have managed to convince workers that most of them should work until the day they die and only a small precious few deserve to retire and finally be allowed to spend time with their loved ones.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Exactly. "Look at that guy, who has it slightly better than you. He's really the problem!"
    - spwa4 2y ago
      How does that work? That guy, pensioner, who has it slightly better than you, is a different way of saying that: 1) that guy gets your labor, for decades. 4 decades to be exact 2) for less than you'll get for that work (that's what getting a higher pension actually means in the real world, with money being an abstraction and all that) 3) he (or she) doesn't get more because they worked harder or better, but because they were working when a random political vote needed to be made (paid for, really). And that, not only won't repeat, but there's absolutely nothing you can do to change the situation to your benefit, even just to equalize. That last part is of course what makes taking away their benefits attractive. Sounds pretty unfair to me. At least with a CEO they did something to get what they got, and there is a way to get their position, even if most will never achieve that.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        It's absolutely unfair. But the solution is to raise the rest of us up, not tear these people down. Why don't I have a retirement like that? Why don't you have a retirement like that? Those are the questions we should be asking. Not "He shouldn't make that much!" The people who earn literally 100X that pensioner are laughing at us as we fight each other
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  US GDP per capita is ~80k. IF you eliminated every billionaire and leveled every salary, this is the max you could get. Much less in actuality, because you would have a universal tax rate of about 40% on that to support the federal government, so ~50k per person after taxes.
- subsubzero 2y ago
  I don't think you understand my issue with this persons pay(and not theirs but alot of city workers). I am fine with a private company paying out of their profits any amount they deem reasonable to a retired leader. Where I have the issue with this is his retirement is bankrupting the entire state/county/city(this is in California) and depriving working productive citizens vital amenities. Having a $300k per year pension is beyond extravagant and is not needed to sustain a healthy lifestyle. I mean looking at tax returns and income brackets that would put his retirement salary(not including 401k and social security) well into the top 5% of all earners and he is not even working.
b0dhimind 2y ago
DOGE needs to take a look at this. Government jobs are totally unfair.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Unless the fire department is federal, DOGE has nothing whatsoever to say about the matter. They don't get to give orders to state or local government, no matter how much they may want to.

ryandrake 2y ago

What about solidarity? Instead of criticizing another worker’s situation as “insane”, we should be asking: why can’t we also have this kind of retirement package? They’ve successfully pitted worker vs worker. I don’t think that retired fire chief’s (or school teachers') retirement is what’s wrong: what’s wrong is that most of us will not have a retirement that good. Why is that? It is possible to answer that question without tearing down someone else’s situation.

chneu 2y ago
Because it isn't sustainable. Only a select few can acquire that kind of retirement and it's borrowed from everyone else. It's selfish. The pension generations over spent and borrowed heavily to fund their retirement and lifestyles. The subsequent generations pay for that. It's selfish and short sighted.
- autoexec 2y ago
  It's more sustainable than many other business practices. Nobody is worried about sustainability when CEOs are making hundreds of times more money than the average employee at the same company or when shareholders relentlessly enshitify everything so that they can keep getting more and more profit quarter after quarter. pension plans were not only sustainable since they started in 1875, but the economy thrived and companies grew powerful while workers had them. Historically, some companies tried to screw over their workers and mismanaged their pension funds, resulting in problems down the line, but that was mostly greed.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Funny how, when they talk about executive compensation, platinum-plated perks, corporate parties with lobster stacks and vodka fountains for the top brass, and of course, dividends and stock buybacks--not a peep about how sustainable it is. But when you talk about pensions and employee salaries, all of a sudden, everyone's so concerned about it being sustainable...
autoexec 2y ago
It comes from crab bucket mentality and a pervasive fear that somebody somewhere might be getting something they don't "deserve". Everyone who gives a company years of their life should be able to comfortably retire after decades of service, but companies have managed to convince workers that most of them should work until the day they die and only a small precious few deserve to retire and finally be allowed to spend time with their loved ones.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Exactly. "Look at that guy, who has it slightly better than you. He's really the problem!"
  - spwa4 2y ago
    How does that work? That guy, pensioner, who has it slightly better than you, is a different way of saying that: 1) that guy gets your labor, for decades. 4 decades to be exact 2) for less than you'll get for that work (that's what getting a higher pension actually means in the real world, with money being an abstraction and all that) 3) he (or she) doesn't get more because they worked harder or better, but because they were working when a random political vote needed to be made (paid for, really). And that, not only won't repeat, but there's absolutely nothing you can do to change the situation to your benefit, even just to equalize. That last part is of course what makes taking away their benefits attractive. Sounds pretty unfair to me. At least with a CEO they did something to get what they got, and there is a way to get their position, even if most will never achieve that.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      It's absolutely unfair. But the solution is to raise the rest of us up, not tear these people down. Why don't I have a retirement like that? Why don't you have a retirement like that? Those are the questions we should be asking. Not "He shouldn't make that much!" The people who earn literally 100X that pensioner are laughing at us as we fight each other
s1artibartfast 2y ago
US GDP per capita is ~80k. IF you eliminated every billionaire and leveled every salary, this is the max you could get. Much less in actuality, because you would have a universal tax rate of about 40% on that to support the federal government, so ~50k per person after taxes.
subsubzero 2y ago
I don't think you understand my issue with this persons pay(and not theirs but alot of city workers). I am fine with a private company paying out of their profits any amount they deem reasonable to a retired leader. Where I have the issue with this is his retirement is bankrupting the entire state/county/city(this is in California) and depriving working productive citizens vital amenities. Having a $300k per year pension is beyond extravagant and is not needed to sustain a healthy lifestyle. I mean looking at tax returns and income brackets that would put his retirement salary(not including 401k and social security) well into the top 5% of all earners and he is not even working.

b0dhimind 2y ago

DOGE needs to take a look at this. Government jobs are totally unfair.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Unless the fire department is federal, DOGE has nothing whatsoever to say about the matter. They don't get to give orders to state or local government, no matter how much they may want to.