4 ms·

It's really another symptom of the digital asymmetry. It's the same as sign-up being one-click CC details input, but cancelling the account/subscriptions requi

by drbig 2y ago

It's really another symptom of the digital asymmetry. It's the same as sign-up being one-click CC details input, but cancelling the account/subscriptions requires you to send a paper mail to America, with parcel tracking, and then The Company has 90 (business) days to "review your case", and they may as well decline it, to which your recourse is... take them to court? In California? Compare that to the medieval market/bazaar: the seller shows you the goods, you show them the geld; you inspect the item(s), they inspect the payment(s). You either both agree to the exchange, or not. Symmetry. And no, I'm not advocating traveling back in time. I'm advocating for more symmetry between the selling and the buying sides.

soupfordummies 2y ago
I like your way of articulating. I've been describing things in much harsher terms lately along the lines of "modern economy is a scam". Thinking of things like how Comcast quietly bumps your bill up every year unless you call and argue with them. Or when I rented a storage unit at a Public Storage that opened next door. They automatically enroll you in their 15/mo "insurance" no matter if you already have a policy and the only way to "opt out" is to contact them in writing and submit a form at least a day AFTER you sign up. All these little micro-grifts that make these companies millions of dollars at scale is definitely ASYMMETRIC.
- drbig 2y ago
  I like the term "(micro-)grifts". Because none of these behaviors are a scam, all here is legal and spelled out in the legalese. And it is all possible because you have authorized _them_ to debit your account, whereas you did not get any way of debiting _their_ account. As such the "onus of work" is always on you. This is why the "decline by default" to any claim is so powerful - it's marginally free for them, but it's a lot of work for you. And it's even better with those call centers: have a number to call but no human to answer - how is anyone going to prove that there are no humans vs "you haven't waited long enough"? (...not even a rhetorical question, how could you?) I have no good ideas how to solve it properly, because this is a balance thing and it's way too easy to reverse the positions instead of balancing them. As a natural person (vs a legal entity) I do always try to opt for post-paid wherever possible. And I have heard and read about "escrow" but never seen it in practice... Though that idea would be my starting point. <rant> I order about 300 packages per year, and usually only get ~3/yr that go this way: Thanks for buying this very specific item of which we have 17 listed as available for the next day delivery! Unfortunately we actually have none of them. As you have already paid us we may [be bothered to try] obtain one for you, but it will take a month or more. Or you can try to select other items from our offer [which we may have or not have]. And finally we are legally obliged to return your money if you wish so, for that you'll need to fill the specific forms and we have 7 days to process, but we guarantee you'll get your money back eventually! And at this point my thought is: Fine, just gimme the option to pay somewhere between 0 days and 3 months after I got the product/service. Oh and also given "next day delivery" is actually "next day to 3+ months later", I'd like the option to maybe-pay the listed price or perhaps 16% of it. After all details don't matter!... </rant>
bigs 2y ago
We as end users have no agency in the relationship with vendors.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  find a new vendor

by drbig 2y ago

soupfordummies 2y ago

I like your way of articulating. I've been describing things in much harsher terms lately along the lines of "modern economy is a scam". Thinking of things like how Comcast quietly bumps your bill up every year unless you call and argue with them. Or when I rented a storage unit at a Public Storage that opened next door. They automatically enroll you in their 15/mo "insurance" no matter if you already have a policy and the only way to "opt out" is to contact them in writing and submit a form at least a day AFTER you sign up. All these little micro-grifts that make these companies millions of dollars at scale is definitely ASYMMETRIC.

drbig 2y ago
I like the term "(micro-)grifts". Because none of these behaviors are a scam, all here is legal and spelled out in the legalese. And it is all possible because you have authorized _them_ to debit your account, whereas you did not get any way of debiting _their_ account. As such the "onus of work" is always on you. This is why the "decline by default" to any claim is so powerful - it's marginally free for them, but it's a lot of work for you. And it's even better with those call centers: have a number to call but no human to answer - how is anyone going to prove that there are no humans vs "you haven't waited long enough"? (...not even a rhetorical question, how could you?) I have no good ideas how to solve it properly, because this is a balance thing and it's way too easy to reverse the positions instead of balancing them. As a natural person (vs a legal entity) I do always try to opt for post-paid wherever possible. And I have heard and read about "escrow" but never seen it in practice... Though that idea would be my starting point. <rant> I order about 300 packages per year, and usually only get ~3/yr that go this way: Thanks for buying this very specific item of which we have 17 listed as available for the next day delivery! Unfortunately we actually have none of them. As you have already paid us we may [be bothered to try] obtain one for you, but it will take a month or more. Or you can try to select other items from our offer [which we may have or not have]. And finally we are legally obliged to return your money if you wish so, for that you'll need to fill the specific forms and we have 7 days to process, but we guarantee you'll get your money back eventually! And at this point my thought is: Fine, just gimme the option to pay somewhere between 0 days and 3 months after I got the product/service. Oh and also given "next day delivery" is actually "next day to 3+ months later", I'd like the option to maybe-pay the listed price or perhaps 16% of it. After all details don't matter!... </rant>

bigs 2y ago

We as end users have no agency in the relationship with vendors.

red-iron-pine 2y ago
find a new vendor