5 ms·

This is a sad outcome. The Bond franchise is very strong, and that’s in large part to a single coherent vision of who the character is. Bond is in need of some

This is a sad outcome. The Bond franchise is very strong, and that’s in large part to a single coherent vision of who the character is. Bond is in need of some modernisation perhaps, but that still needs the strong creative control. The bean counters at Amazon aren’t that, and it shows in every Amazon studios production (and in most Netflix productions too), they’re too caught up in the numbers, the marketability, ticking boxes for target audiences, that the content is soulless. I hope Bond survives.

bl4kers 2y ago
The literary version is already public domain in many countries
Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Seems to be more than just bean counting. Rings of Power was showered with money, so there are properties Amazon is willing to spend lavish amounts of money on. They also boosted the budget when they took over The Expanse, though there's plenty of disagreement over if that netted a better result or not.
- ganoushoreilly 2y ago
  The money wasn't the issue though, it was the lack of respect for the established cannon / materials and most fans / viewers not connecting with it.
  - echelon 2y ago
    A web host / grocery store has no taste and should not be disrupting the entertainment industry. It's time that we start trust busting these trillion dollar giants. Amazon needs a break up. It's totally unfair that they subsidized all of that using unrelated business unit profit, displayed marquees on Amazon boxes and on the side of their delivery vans, and shipped all of our production crew jobs over to developing economies. US film production is in shambles because of Amazon.
    - ganoushoreilly 2y ago
      I don't see a monopolistic hold on the media from Amazon that would justify this. Anyone can produce content and put it out there. I agree they're not a good steward and they pretty much ruin franchises, but their right to do it is just that. Now if there is evidence that they're taking a substantial amount of business away from everyone else and you can prove they have a controlling hold on it, i'm with you on breaking it up.
  - cjpearson 2y ago
    Bond doesn't really have a deep canon. They long ago moved on from the source material, and the first 20 movies were connected only in the loosest sense. For Craig's movies they tried to make a cross-movie continuity, but it didn't really work and required some retconning. But the movies do have a unique sort of character and consistency that is widely believed to be due to one family running the show for 60+ years. I'm not sure that be replicated with a data-driven, committee-based approach. I also believe it was Broccoli's veto power that prevented over-saturation, and direct-to-streaming releases. My guess is it will be closer to Star Wars than Lord of the Rings or Wheel of Time. Some of the movies may be "good" and some may be "bad", but they'll be missing that bit that made them special.
    - JohnBooty 2y ago
      My guess is it will be closer to Star Wars than Lord of the Rings or Wheel of Time. Yeah. Not all Bond movies were good, but they were at least rare which made them feel special. Now? Oh boy. Amazon did not buy this franchise to turn out three movies a decade, that's for sure. I promise there will be a James Bond streaming series, and probably multiple James Bond streaming series. And there will be spinoffs. Ever wonder what Q does when he's not making gadgets for Bond? You're going to find out in his own series. How about Miss Moneypenny? Oh yeah. Another important load-bearing column in the James Bond Cinematic/Streaming Universe. It's absolutely going to be a Star Wars / Marvel kind of thing. I hate it, even though... if we're honest, it's not like Bond was some highbrow thing. Most of the movies were fun, but few were what people would really think of as "great." Nearly all of them had a camp factor between "moderately high" and "very high." But still.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      > My guess is it will be closer to Star Wars I mourn about what's become of Star Wars.
librasteve 2y ago
spoiler alert - he is dead
echelon 2y ago
Amazon needs to be broken up. They are a web host, e-commerce giant, consumer electronics company, grocery store, primary care doctor, and movie studio. That is so wildly fucked. These companies are entering into entirely new markets, destroying the value, giving it away for free, all subsidized by unrelated business unit profit. One of the core reasons why Hollywood is floundering is because tech giants are doing this. Why don't we do trust busting anymore?
- zht 2y ago
  we barely do democracy anymore
- mainecoder 2y ago
  let them let the customers choose also it allows them to amass substantial capital that can then be spent on R & D that maintains the lead of the US in some areas, as a multinational there is a lot of money coming from other countries that is beneficial to the U.S.. If China is the only country where MegaCorps, then it would be hard for segmented U.S. firms to compete with them
- FredPret 2y ago
  Hollywood is floundering because: - there's no secondary market for VHS & DVD anymore. Almost all the money has to be made on opening weekend - in recent years, content has become preachy instead of focusing on being entertaining Netflix & Amazon movies are ultra-low quality; you couldn't pay me to watch it. A quality Hollywood production that was made to entertain instead of persuade can still easily outcompete tech company movies
  - danpalmer 2y ago
    > in recent years, content has become preachy instead of focusing on being entertaining I'm not sure I feel this? From my perspective, the Marvel films feel like a counter example, where they only care about the "entertainment" (arguably the opening weekend!), and there's no lasting quality to them. Each one individually is a reasonable way to pass 2 hours, but they feel like junk food films, I don't feel better for having watched them. The alternative is things like A24's output, which one may call "preachy", but while I might not enjoy them in the same way as turning my mind off in front of Avengers 8: Avenge Harder-er, they have a much bigger impact on my life and satisfy me much more as a viewer.
geodel 2y ago
All Bonds are marketing phenomena. Amazon Prime Bond will be no different. Good time to try new brands for guns, watches, cars, gadgets and so on.
- brickfaced 2y ago
  This is a very sad and soulless way to view Bond's story.
  - geodel 2y ago
    At the end of day Bond movies, Star wars saga, Jazz music, many sports culture or even Apple gadgets are great successfully marketed products. Now some people do take it as way of life and are deep into it, for them, it is not just some product. But for lot others these are just a type of movies, music, sports etc.
    - brickfaced 2y ago
      I hope you're never in charge of anything in which other people find meaning and community.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
milleramp 2y ago
I wonder if they will shift production away from Pinewood Studios?
- esskay 2y ago
  Unlikely, Amazon's already got a long term contract in place with the pinewod group for facilities extending beyond Bond. The actual bond stage is owned by Pinewood and used for lots of different productions however Eon were always given priorty access (again contractually). You don't really drop contracts like that in the UK, especially right now when theres a shortage of production space due to Amazon, Disney, Netflix, Sky, etc all fighting for access.
marinmania 2y ago
I am not the biggest Bond fan so feel free to ignore my opinion, but it seems possible that Amazon is less of a bean counter than a traditional studio? They will throw money at the first production - with the hopes it is a hit. They are not beholden to it being profitable on paper like a studio would be. But I also realize they took this approach to Lord of the Rings, and it didn't turn out.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  This may be true, but Bond hasn't been owned by a traditional studio, it has essentially been owned by a family who have inherited control down a few generations.
drewcoo 2y ago
> This is a sad outcome. The Bond franchise is very strong Even back in the Broccoli years, Bond was garbage. The movie bond was a government assassin who we all pretended wasn't. Because sex. Ridiculous! To Americans he also seemed smart and worldly. Because he had a British accent. Which sexy women liked. True, yet also ridiculous! Can AMZN bury this relic faster than Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny was reburied? Rate to find out!
- Molitor5901 2y ago
  Even back in the Broccoli years, Bond was garbage. LOLWut ?! As of 2023, the James Bond film franchise has grossed over $7 billion globally at the box office. It's the sixth highest grossing film franchise in history. Your opinions of taste aside, Bond was anything but garbage otherwise it would never have lasted as long, or made as much money. https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    Some things generate profit regardless of quality become the popular transcends any medium or iteration. BvS was garbage but made money because people like those characters and will always pay. Same with Bond.
- JojoFatsani 2y ago
  The movies are a lot of fun.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  FWIW, I'm British. I won't disagree that there was a certain cringe to Bond, and the older films have aged quite poorly. But there's nostalgia there still, and it's also worth remembering that in many ways Bond defined the image of worldly/sexy. Bond's cultural impact on Men's fashion for example is huge. The films were influential at the time, even if in hindsight they're a bit simplistic or fantastical and more than a bit misogynistic. I think the films are also worth more than the sum of their parts. Each one is typically an above average blockbuster style action film, but nothing particularly special. Taken together however, they are worth a lot more because of that continuing thread that has been done so well, and it's that which leads to the cultural significance. The franchise certainly needs updating, but I think it has evolved over time and can likely continue to do so with that strong creative backing. It depends much less on sex now than it did even 20 years ago, they moved past the gadgets (as "gadgets" became less of a thing, it's hard to have a clever gadget when we all have smartphones in our pockets).
Molitor5901 2y ago
Some modernization but I agree that it is very strong with a single coherent vision of the character. Bond does not and should be a woman, or transgender or any other twist to modernize. It can do that with supporting characters, and in how Bond interacts with them. Making a stark change to the main character would cause too much discontinuity with fans, and people who have know Bond as a specific archetype for a very, very long time. We should think of new characters to fit modern ideas, not changing old out of simplicity; or latching onto the gravy train.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  I doubt that any of the options you've given would have been likely or be any more likely under new management – as you said, that modernisation can happen and is happening already through other characters. What I could absolutely see happening is a teenage Bond YA fiction style thing, which would dilute the character. Or alternatively, a TV show, which would dilute the brand.
rasz 2y ago
>I hope Bond survives. ? Bond died in last movie.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  Bond was also in his 40s in both the 1960s and 2020s. It's almost like there are different iterations of the character and will be again.
kennysoona 2y ago
> The Bond franchise is very strong I'm not sure how well it was doing under the Broccoli stewardship to be honest, I think some younger blood was needed. Although a soulless giant company is not what I would have suggested as a replacement.

bl4kers 2y ago

The literary version is already public domain in many countries

Mountain_Skies 2y ago

Seems to be more than just bean counting. Rings of Power was showered with money, so there are properties Amazon is willing to spend lavish amounts of money on. They also boosted the budget when they took over The Expanse, though there's plenty of disagreement over if that netted a better result or not.

ganoushoreilly 2y ago
The money wasn't the issue though, it was the lack of respect for the established cannon / materials and most fans / viewers not connecting with it.
- echelon 2y ago
  A web host / grocery store has no taste and should not be disrupting the entertainment industry. It's time that we start trust busting these trillion dollar giants. Amazon needs a break up. It's totally unfair that they subsidized all of that using unrelated business unit profit, displayed marquees on Amazon boxes and on the side of their delivery vans, and shipped all of our production crew jobs over to developing economies. US film production is in shambles because of Amazon.
  - ganoushoreilly 2y ago
    I don't see a monopolistic hold on the media from Amazon that would justify this. Anyone can produce content and put it out there. I agree they're not a good steward and they pretty much ruin franchises, but their right to do it is just that. Now if there is evidence that they're taking a substantial amount of business away from everyone else and you can prove they have a controlling hold on it, i'm with you on breaking it up.
- cjpearson 2y ago
  Bond doesn't really have a deep canon. They long ago moved on from the source material, and the first 20 movies were connected only in the loosest sense. For Craig's movies they tried to make a cross-movie continuity, but it didn't really work and required some retconning. But the movies do have a unique sort of character and consistency that is widely believed to be due to one family running the show for 60+ years. I'm not sure that be replicated with a data-driven, committee-based approach. I also believe it was Broccoli's veto power that prevented over-saturation, and direct-to-streaming releases. My guess is it will be closer to Star Wars than Lord of the Rings or Wheel of Time. Some of the movies may be "good" and some may be "bad", but they'll be missing that bit that made them special.
  - JohnBooty 2y ago
    My guess is it will be closer to Star Wars than Lord of the Rings or Wheel of Time. Yeah. Not all Bond movies were good, but they were at least rare which made them feel special. Now? Oh boy. Amazon did not buy this franchise to turn out three movies a decade, that's for sure. I promise there will be a James Bond streaming series, and probably multiple James Bond streaming series. And there will be spinoffs. Ever wonder what Q does when he's not making gadgets for Bond? You're going to find out in his own series. How about Miss Moneypenny? Oh yeah. Another important load-bearing column in the James Bond Cinematic/Streaming Universe. It's absolutely going to be a Star Wars / Marvel kind of thing. I hate it, even though... if we're honest, it's not like Bond was some highbrow thing. Most of the movies were fun, but few were what people would really think of as "great." Nearly all of them had a camp factor between "moderately high" and "very high." But still.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    > My guess is it will be closer to Star Wars I mourn about what's become of Star Wars.

librasteve 2y ago

spoiler alert - he is dead

echelon 2y ago

Amazon needs to be broken up. They are a web host, e-commerce giant, consumer electronics company, grocery store, primary care doctor, and movie studio. That is so wildly fucked. These companies are entering into entirely new markets, destroying the value, giving it away for free, all subsidized by unrelated business unit profit. One of the core reasons why Hollywood is floundering is because tech giants are doing this. Why don't we do trust busting anymore?

zht 2y ago
we barely do democracy anymore
mainecoder 2y ago
let them let the customers choose also it allows them to amass substantial capital that can then be spent on R & D that maintains the lead of the US in some areas, as a multinational there is a lot of money coming from other countries that is beneficial to the U.S.. If China is the only country where MegaCorps, then it would be hard for segmented U.S. firms to compete with them
FredPret 2y ago
Hollywood is floundering because: - there's no secondary market for VHS & DVD anymore. Almost all the money has to be made on opening weekend - in recent years, content has become preachy instead of focusing on being entertaining Netflix & Amazon movies are ultra-low quality; you couldn't pay me to watch it. A quality Hollywood production that was made to entertain instead of persuade can still easily outcompete tech company movies
- danpalmer 2y ago
  > in recent years, content has become preachy instead of focusing on being entertaining I'm not sure I feel this? From my perspective, the Marvel films feel like a counter example, where they only care about the "entertainment" (arguably the opening weekend!), and there's no lasting quality to them. Each one individually is a reasonable way to pass 2 hours, but they feel like junk food films, I don't feel better for having watched them. The alternative is things like A24's output, which one may call "preachy", but while I might not enjoy them in the same way as turning my mind off in front of Avengers 8: Avenge Harder-er, they have a much bigger impact on my life and satisfy me much more as a viewer.

geodel 2y ago

All Bonds are marketing phenomena. Amazon Prime Bond will be no different. Good time to try new brands for guns, watches, cars, gadgets and so on.

brickfaced 2y ago
This is a very sad and soulless way to view Bond's story.
- geodel 2y ago
  At the end of day Bond movies, Star wars saga, Jazz music, many sports culture or even Apple gadgets are great successfully marketed products. Now some people do take it as way of life and are deep into it, for them, it is not just some product. But for lot others these are just a type of movies, music, sports etc.
  - brickfaced 2y ago
    I hope you're never in charge of anything in which other people find meaning and community.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

milleramp 2y ago

I wonder if they will shift production away from Pinewood Studios?

esskay 2y ago
Unlikely, Amazon's already got a long term contract in place with the pinewod group for facilities extending beyond Bond. The actual bond stage is owned by Pinewood and used for lots of different productions however Eon were always given priorty access (again contractually). You don't really drop contracts like that in the UK, especially right now when theres a shortage of production space due to Amazon, Disney, Netflix, Sky, etc all fighting for access.

marinmania 2y ago

I am not the biggest Bond fan so feel free to ignore my opinion, but it seems possible that Amazon is less of a bean counter than a traditional studio? They will throw money at the first production - with the hopes it is a hit. They are not beholden to it being profitable on paper like a studio would be. But I also realize they took this approach to Lord of the Rings, and it didn't turn out.

danpalmer 2y ago
This may be true, but Bond hasn't been owned by a traditional studio, it has essentially been owned by a family who have inherited control down a few generations.

drewcoo 2y ago

> This is a sad outcome. The Bond franchise is very strong Even back in the Broccoli years, Bond was garbage. The movie bond was a government assassin who we all pretended wasn't. Because sex. Ridiculous! To Americans he also seemed smart and worldly. Because he had a British accent. Which sexy women liked. True, yet also ridiculous! Can AMZN bury this relic faster than Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny was reburied? Rate to find out!

Molitor5901 2y ago
Even back in the Broccoli years, Bond was garbage. LOLWut ?! As of 2023, the James Bond film franchise has grossed over $7 billion globally at the box office. It's the sixth highest grossing film franchise in history. Your opinions of taste aside, Bond was anything but garbage otherwise it would never have lasted as long, or made as much money. https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond
- kennysoona 2y ago
  Some things generate profit regardless of quality become the popular transcends any medium or iteration. BvS was garbage but made money because people like those characters and will always pay. Same with Bond.
JojoFatsani 2y ago
The movies are a lot of fun.
danpalmer 2y ago
FWIW, I'm British. I won't disagree that there was a certain cringe to Bond, and the older films have aged quite poorly. But there's nostalgia there still, and it's also worth remembering that in many ways Bond defined the image of worldly/sexy. Bond's cultural impact on Men's fashion for example is huge. The films were influential at the time, even if in hindsight they're a bit simplistic or fantastical and more than a bit misogynistic. I think the films are also worth more than the sum of their parts. Each one is typically an above average blockbuster style action film, but nothing particularly special. Taken together however, they are worth a lot more because of that continuing thread that has been done so well, and it's that which leads to the cultural significance. The franchise certainly needs updating, but I think it has evolved over time and can likely continue to do so with that strong creative backing. It depends much less on sex now than it did even 20 years ago, they moved past the gadgets (as "gadgets" became less of a thing, it's hard to have a clever gadget when we all have smartphones in our pockets).

Molitor5901 2y ago

Some modernization but I agree that it is very strong with a single coherent vision of the character. Bond does not and should be a woman, or transgender or any other twist to modernize. It can do that with supporting characters, and in how Bond interacts with them. Making a stark change to the main character would cause too much discontinuity with fans, and people who have know Bond as a specific archetype for a very, very long time. We should think of new characters to fit modern ideas, not changing old out of simplicity; or latching onto the gravy train.

danpalmer 2y ago
I doubt that any of the options you've given would have been likely or be any more likely under new management – as you said, that modernisation can happen and is happening already through other characters. What I could absolutely see happening is a teenage Bond YA fiction style thing, which would dilute the character. Or alternatively, a TV show, which would dilute the brand.

rasz 2y ago

>I hope Bond survives. ? Bond died in last movie.

kennysoona 2y ago
Bond was also in his 40s in both the 1960s and 2020s. It's almost like there are different iterations of the character and will be again.

kennysoona 2y ago

> The Bond franchise is very strong I'm not sure how well it was doing under the Broccoli stewardship to be honest, I think some younger blood was needed. Although a soulless giant company is not what I would have suggested as a replacement.