4 ms·

If the store clerk took home some of the supplies, what would the impact on the company's balance sheet be? Not significant but she'd be setting the wrong examp

If the store clerk took home some of the supplies, what would the impact on the company's balance sheet be? Not significant but she'd be setting the wrong example by doing so. If the CEO of a non-profit insists on "pay equity" with her for-profit equivalents she should look for a job in a for-profit, not leach dry the non-profit. Enough of the bullshit with overpaid and underperforming Mozilla CEOs, time for a real change there. I propose Mozilla creates a DOME department - Dept. of Mozilla Efficiency - which goes through the organisation, top to bottom. Make Mozilla concentrate on its core tasks again, i.e. creating and maintaining browsers to serve as bulwark against the Blink-Webkit duopoly. More developers, fewer executives, more releases, fewer distractions, Make Mozilla Great Again!

tredre3 2y ago
The CEO receiving a salary that was agreed upon through negotiation is very different from shoplifting and I hope that you can see that and come up with a better analogy.
- tombert 2y ago
  It's different, I don't think they're claiming that it's directly equivalent, but they were responding to the claim that "7 million isn't significant in the grand scheme of things", and they're arguing that "just because it might not be a significant number doesn't necessarily mean we just let it slide". I don't think anyone is accusing the Mozilla CEO of "stealing" the money.
  - DrBenCarson 2y ago
    Any company looking to hire a CEO will have to pay market rates. Those market rates are not make-or-break expenses for the vast majority of companies
    - hagbard_c 2y ago
      Now there's another sector of society ripe for a shake-up by DoBE - Dept. of Business Efficiency - which has as a stated mission to rid the business world of the parasites is has picked up in the last century. From overpaid CEOs to overpaid corporate lawyers, scrape 'm off just like you'd scrape the barnacles off your vessel's hull after having been at sea for an extended period. While a business needs leadership and legal support it does not need to lend itself to supporting the bloated class of parasites which has grown to be the norm for some of those functions. The way to go at this without breaking incentives for people to start new businesses won't be easy and it won't be by way of redistribution like socialists (etc.) are so fond of. The best way is most likely to change societal norms so that it will no longer be seen as acceptable for a company to have a CEO (or CFO or COO or CxO) hauling in more than, say, 24 times the average pay in his or her company. That '24' number just fell out of my sleeve and probably needs some more thought but the gist is clear. In 2023 the average pay ratio for CEO to average was somewhere around 270 to 1 and that ratio has been going up for decades. By now you'd think that CEOs would have priced themselves out of the market but that does not happen. I suspect this has a lot to do with the makeup of the boards of directors which decide over CEO pay being manned by other (aspiring) CEOs who as a group have an interest in keeping up CxO pay. Yes, this is a difficult problem to really solve but also yes, I think it is a problem and I think it is worth solving it.
- spwa4 2y ago
  I think you will find that CEOs either have a significant share of the company, or are the lackeys of someone who does. In other words the only "negotiation" they did was negotiating with themselves.
tombert 2y ago
I broadly agree, though then the argument would be "well the best CEOs would go to for-profit places", and we might get worse CEOs leading the non-profits; if we had the non-profit pay for-profit wages, then they might be more appealing to more talented people. I'm not sure I actually agree with this argument, to be clear. I don't even know that I think the CEO does all that much; Elon Musk is the CEO of like three or four companies while also leading a government agency, indicating to me that "CEO" is not a difficult job, so I don't know that we necessarily need "the best" CEO anyway.
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  We would probably be better off with non-profits run by non-profit oriented CEOs.
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  People like Musk, Jobs, Edison and others are valuable because they see future possibilities - not pipe dreams but real possibilities - and turn their attention towards realising those goals by putting together teams of people who stand a chance to get there. Some of them - Musk and Edison in this list - do some of the work themselves, others - Jobs - are more 'visionary leaders' who somehow manage to inspire or scare others towards achieving the goal. Once the company is up and running these types of leaders tend to look elsewhere to break new ground because the day-to-day grind of running those companies is not their thing. Mozilla does not need to find future possibilities, it got its goals handed to it by Marc Andreessen via Netscape: create and maintain a browser. The task of a non-profit CEO is to make sure the company remains funded. This takes a different type of person, someone who has or manages to create contacts within places where money is to be found. The last series of Mozilla CEOs saw this differently, these women convinced themselves that they were there to 'change the world' by means of pushing ideologically loaded programs and propaganda onto it. They considered the true reason for being of their organisation - create and maintain a browser which competes against the duopoly by giving control back to the user - no more than a means to get the funding for their ideological crusade. They also increased their own piece of the pie markedly in the process in some strange realisation of Orwell's All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than the others quote.

tredre3 2y ago

The CEO receiving a salary that was agreed upon through negotiation is very different from shoplifting and I hope that you can see that and come up with a better analogy.

tombert 2y ago
It's different, I don't think they're claiming that it's directly equivalent, but they were responding to the claim that "7 million isn't significant in the grand scheme of things", and they're arguing that "just because it might not be a significant number doesn't necessarily mean we just let it slide". I don't think anyone is accusing the Mozilla CEO of "stealing" the money.
- DrBenCarson 2y ago
  Any company looking to hire a CEO will have to pay market rates. Those market rates are not make-or-break expenses for the vast majority of companies
  - hagbard_c 2y ago
    Now there's another sector of society ripe for a shake-up by DoBE - Dept. of Business Efficiency - which has as a stated mission to rid the business world of the parasites is has picked up in the last century. From overpaid CEOs to overpaid corporate lawyers, scrape 'm off just like you'd scrape the barnacles off your vessel's hull after having been at sea for an extended period. While a business needs leadership and legal support it does not need to lend itself to supporting the bloated class of parasites which has grown to be the norm for some of those functions. The way to go at this without breaking incentives for people to start new businesses won't be easy and it won't be by way of redistribution like socialists (etc.) are so fond of. The best way is most likely to change societal norms so that it will no longer be seen as acceptable for a company to have a CEO (or CFO or COO or CxO) hauling in more than, say, 24 times the average pay in his or her company. That '24' number just fell out of my sleeve and probably needs some more thought but the gist is clear. In 2023 the average pay ratio for CEO to average was somewhere around 270 to 1 and that ratio has been going up for decades. By now you'd think that CEOs would have priced themselves out of the market but that does not happen. I suspect this has a lot to do with the makeup of the boards of directors which decide over CEO pay being manned by other (aspiring) CEOs who as a group have an interest in keeping up CxO pay. Yes, this is a difficult problem to really solve but also yes, I think it is a problem and I think it is worth solving it.
spwa4 2y ago
I think you will find that CEOs either have a significant share of the company, or are the lackeys of someone who does. In other words the only "negotiation" they did was negotiating with themselves.

tombert 2y ago

I broadly agree, though then the argument would be "well the best CEOs would go to for-profit places", and we might get worse CEOs leading the non-profits; if we had the non-profit pay for-profit wages, then they might be more appealing to more talented people. I'm not sure I actually agree with this argument, to be clear. I don't even know that I think the CEO does all that much; Elon Musk is the CEO of like three or four companies while also leading a government agency, indicating to me that "CEO" is not a difficult job, so I don't know that we necessarily need "the best" CEO anyway.

RobotToaster 2y ago
We would probably be better off with non-profits run by non-profit oriented CEOs.
hagbard_c 2y ago
People like Musk, Jobs, Edison and others are valuable because they see future possibilities - not pipe dreams but real possibilities - and turn their attention towards realising those goals by putting together teams of people who stand a chance to get there. Some of them - Musk and Edison in this list - do some of the work themselves, others - Jobs - are more 'visionary leaders' who somehow manage to inspire or scare others towards achieving the goal. Once the company is up and running these types of leaders tend to look elsewhere to break new ground because the day-to-day grind of running those companies is not their thing. Mozilla does not need to find future possibilities, it got its goals handed to it by Marc Andreessen via Netscape: create and maintain a browser. The task of a non-profit CEO is to make sure the company remains funded. This takes a different type of person, someone who has or manages to create contacts within places where money is to be found. The last series of Mozilla CEOs saw this differently, these women convinced themselves that they were there to 'change the world' by means of pushing ideologically loaded programs and propaganda onto it. They considered the true reason for being of their organisation - create and maintain a browser which competes against the duopoly by giving control back to the user - no more than a means to get the funding for their ideological crusade. They also increased their own piece of the pie markedly in the process in some strange realisation of Orwell's All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than the others quote.