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That there is a preference is a statistical fact; the controversial question is what is the cause for the preference. Incidentally, even if we were to pretend

by Cushman 14y ago

That there is a preference is a statistical fact; the controversial question is what is the cause for the preference. Incidentally, even if we were to pretend to compare the industries of "technology" and "education of children between the ages of 6 and 12", your quip fails the test: A majority of teachers may be female, but there is no such majority among those in "leadership positions" (administrators, principals and superintendants).

DeepDuh 14y ago
Is it? Preference would mean that for a woman in IT seeking a job it is harder than for a man, right? Given that high female employment percentages look good in an IT manager's report I doubt that this is the case but if you have some relevant statistics please share.
svdad 14y ago
No, "preference" implies intention and active choice. A preference does not exist in the absence of a human actor to have it. That there is a majority is a statistical fact. Whether anyone has a preference for male employees is the controversial question you refer to.
cellularmitosis 14y ago
I think I misunderstand what you mean by "preference". Take as example a company where 90% of the programmer applicants are male. As I understand the word "preference", a resulting workforce of 90% males would indicate no preference one way or the other (assuming the men and women were equally skilled). Further, a 91% male workforce would be evidence of a male preference, while an 89% male workforce evidence of a female preference. Is that what you mean by "preference"?
- Cushman 14y ago
  Yeah, obviously a lot of people misunderstood that. I apologize for the confusion. I was using "preference" in a more generic complex-systems-analysis sense. We begin with a potential workforce, at birth, of half men and half women. Over time, the further you go into the industry, you see more and more men and fewer and fewer women. The women are being rejected, the men are being selected for, this demonstrates a preference. Again, not imputing any consciousness here, it's just what the system is doing. The claim we are asked to accept is that this reflects a something real and measurable, such as my transportation preference for cars over horses, rather than something subjective and arbitrary, such as my berry preference for blueberries over strawberries.

by Cushman 14y ago

DeepDuh 14y ago

Is it? Preference would mean that for a woman in IT seeking a job it is harder than for a man, right? Given that high female employment percentages look good in an IT manager's report I doubt that this is the case but if you have some relevant statistics please share.

svdad 14y ago

No, "preference" implies intention and active choice. A preference does not exist in the absence of a human actor to have it. That there is a majority is a statistical fact. Whether anyone has a preference for male employees is the controversial question you refer to.

cellularmitosis 14y ago

I think I misunderstand what you mean by "preference". Take as example a company where 90% of the programmer applicants are male. As I understand the word "preference", a resulting workforce of 90% males would indicate no preference one way or the other (assuming the men and women were equally skilled). Further, a 91% male workforce would be evidence of a male preference, while an 89% male workforce evidence of a female preference. Is that what you mean by "preference"?

Cushman 14y ago
Yeah, obviously a lot of people misunderstood that. I apologize for the confusion. I was using "preference" in a more generic complex-systems-analysis sense. We begin with a potential workforce, at birth, of half men and half women. Over time, the further you go into the industry, you see more and more men and fewer and fewer women. The women are being rejected, the men are being selected for, this demonstrates a preference. Again, not imputing any consciousness here, it's just what the system is doing. The claim we are asked to accept is that this reflects a something real and measurable, such as my transportation preference for cars over horses, rather than something subjective and arbitrary, such as my berry preference for blueberries over strawberries.