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I'd love to have more of my socializing happening on Signal. Anyone got a good way to convince the non-paranoid to use it?
by lenerdenator 2y ago
I'd love to have more of my socializing happening on Signal. Anyone got a good way to convince the non-paranoid to use it?
- OsrsNeedsf2P 2y ago"Sorry, I only use Signal" has worked nearly a decade for me
- bdangubic 2y agosame
- golergka 2y agoWhat if you need to contact someone and they use whatsapp?
- Henchman21 2y agoIME you say “Sorry I only use Signal” and either they change or you don’t get in contact with that person. If you change and abandon your principles were they really principles in the first place?
- golergka 2y agoHow do you tell that to them in the first place? You got someone's phone number. The person who gives it to you tells them that they use whatsapp. You can't even tell them "Sorry I only use Signal" unless you open whatsapp app.
- basisword 2y agoYou realise you could use that phone number to...call them and let them know? Also - in what situation are they giving you a phone number and telling you they use WhatsApp but you having no way to respond when receiving that info? If it's in person you can explain at the time. If it's taken from a website, call them. Or you can even fall back on SMS.
- prmoustache 2y agoIf they can't reach you via whatsapp, they will call you.
- kelnos 2y agoPresumably at the time they've given you their phone number, they've told you that they are on WhatsApp, and then you've responded directly that you're only on Signal. If there is a communications channel by which they can give you their phone number, you can use that same channel to discuss what messenger to use.
- DemPartyPooper 2y ago[flagged]
- root_axis 2y agoRCS?
- croes 2y agoWhat if they want to contact you and you use Signal?
- jisnsm 2y agoLuckily, with the technological advances in the last months, it is now possible to install more than one app on a phone at a time.
- maigret 2y agoIt is also possible to communicate without using Meta services.
- tumsfestival 2y agoGood luck with that depending on where you live.
- inetknght 2y ago> it is now possible to install more than one app on a phone at a time. And, in doing so, achieve the security posture of the worse of the apps!
- immibis 2y agoIf you really really really need to? You use Whatsapp. If you don't need to? You tell them to get Signal.
- ycombinatrix 2y agoNot GP - I tolerate Whatsapp but I draw the line at SMS.
- Fnoord 2y agoYou call them. Or use SMS. Or use e-mail.
- echelon_musk 2y agoVirtue Signalling!
- throwawayq3423 2y agoWhich is bad, how?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- potato3732842 2y agoIt's a joke, because virtue signaling (or whatever name you want to give it) is bad, but Signal the messenger app is good so it's a play on words.
- heyloolma 2y agoIt’s not bad. It just IS. the only people that think it is bad are people who have a different opinion and feel attacked for whatever reason. I find it telling when people accuse others of virtue signaling because it is almost always someone who is jealous or insecure attacking said signaler.
- DFHippie 2y ago"Virtue signaling" in theory means "talking the talk without walking the walk", but it's generally thrown out by people who make no effort to assess whether the person criticized is walking the walk or even in contradiction of such evidence. Driving an economically efficient car -- choosing any sort of car -- has enormous consequences on one's life, for example. Choosing to by a particular car isn't a decision made lightly. But Prius drivers back in the day were accused of virtue signaling, as though the Prius were equivalent to a temporary tattoo. In fact, speaking of temporary tattoos, simply having a bumper sticker advocating for animal rights, say, belief in anthropogenic climate change, or peace in the Middle East will expose one to regular displays of hostility and aggression, so it isn't a cheap signal. In other words, in my experience your observation is spot on.
- tapoxi 2y agoMy (non-technical) Mom actually got my whole extended family on Signal with a group link. Since there's no real account creation it was painless. It's how we do all video calls/photo sharing/chat now.
- Mistletoe 2y agoJust explain what end to end encryption means. People are starting to get it and don’t want companies able to read their messages.
- mikedelfino 2y agoIsn’t WhatsApp end-to-end encrypted?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mmooss 2y agoI thought they recorded the metadata - who talks to who and when. (For the uninitiated, that is as valuable or more valuable than the message contents.)
- inor0gu 2y agoyou also send them your contacts in plaintext so you can find who's also on WhatsApp; signal doesn't
- FergusArgyll 2y agoYes it is, they actually use the signal protocol,[0] but they collect metadata which Signal supposedly doesn't (you can't really know) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol#:~:text=Several%20closed%2Dsource%20applications%20have%20implemented%20the%20protocol%2C%20such%20as%20WhatsApp%2C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol#:~:text=Severa...
- inor0gu 2y agoSignal doesn't collect that data, but you have no reason to trust me on it. Look at what data they can provide to governments when compelled by law: https://signal.org/bigbrother/ https://signal.org/bigbrother/
- miggol 2y agoGroup stories are great fun and a feature I seriously miss on Whatsapp. They work well from meme chats to family groups. There being a killer feature that Whatsapp users are missing out on won't convince everyone but it sure makes me feel less like a nerd when encouraging the switch to Signal. I find it quite funny that such an obvious feature likely hasn't been added to Whatsapp yet because Meta thinks Instagram is for stories. That's pure speculation on my part though
- mmooss 2y agoI helped an especially non-technical user install Signal and they didn't need my help at all. They were using it in a minute - download from the app store, transcribe a code from a text message, and you're in - and it worked just like legacy text and phone. I'd tell them that - just download it and you'll be texting me in a minute, and now nobody is tracking everyone you talk to.
- imglorp 2y agoTo be clear, someone will/can track WHO you talk to. Right?
- mmooss 2y agoMy understanding is that they can/do on WhatsApp. On Signal, unless there is a some bug or outright fraud, afaik they cannot - that is one of their fundamental goals, and they did a lot of work to develop communication technology that worked without revealing that metadata. (Of course, if someone gets access to your phone, then they know who you are talking to.)
- seb1204 2y agoThat kind of meta data is not stored by signal as far as I know. But yes, data stream between two end points can be linked to communicating with each other.
- autoexec 2y ago[flagged]
- rsingel 2y ago[flagged]
- autoexec 2y ago[flagged]
- itishappy 2y agoThis comes as news to me, and rather disappointing news at that. Do you have a source I can read further?
- autoexec 2y agoSeveral sources and links for more info. Check my profile for more, I don't want to spam the same links all over this topic, but I'd start here: https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-security-pins-are-too-easy-to-brute-force-sgx-is-not-reliable-enough/15096 https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-secu... https://web.archive.org/web/20210126201848mp_/https://palant.info/2020/06/16/does-signals-secure-value-recovery-really-work/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210126201848mp_/https://palant... https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkyzek/signal-new-pin-feature-worries-cybersecurity-experts https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkyzek/signal-new-pin-featur...
- tptacek 2y agoI'm not going to run interference against all the comments you're writing on this thread, because I don't think Signal needs the help and it would make the thread ultra-tedious. But during the brief window where people were taking Wire seriously as a Signal alternative, I'd occasionally write a comment or tweet like: Were you aware that Wire keeps a high-fidelity plaintext database of exactly who talks to who on their platform? And people were reliably startled. But all that was happening was that ordinary users have no mental model for how a secure messenger is designed, and hadn't thought through how serverside contact lists that magically work no matter what device you enroll in the system were actually designed. So here I'll just say: the stuff you're saying about Signal is pretty banal and uninteresting. The SGX+Enclave stuff is Signal's answer to something every other mainstream messenger does even worse than that. By all means, flunk them on their purity test!
- lcc 2y agoI've had good luck just asking for it, even with group chats (though admittedly my friends are mostly technical and more privacy conscious than the average person). Usually it's a switch from FB Messenger and I just say that I don't want to be locked into Facebook anymore.
- rakoo 2y agoTake time with the people to do the boring stuff on their phone/computer: - install [the thing] - start it, show how it works - search for yourself, start a convo, exchange messages - add them to the group IME the friction comes from having to do the first step, because it's really an annoyance no one cares about, so if you take it for yourself and do it they'll like that
- MillironX 2y agoI usually tell people, "It's like iMessage, but it works on iPhone and Android," or "Hey, if you download Signal we can send high-quality photos between Android and iPhone."
- jaza 2y agoI've still got Signal installed, but never use it, I only ever ended up chatting on it with a few ex-colleagues, who were fellow devs / nerds. I have so many WhatsApp group chats (here in Australia) that are critical for me these days, and that I don't control, and that have way too many people, and way too diverse a range of people, for me to have any hope whatsoever of migrating them all to Signal. School parents group chats (one for each class that my kids are in). Strata (aka Home Owners Association) committee group chat. Scouts group chat. Various friends groups chats. Boycotting WhatsApp is not an option for me, it would literally make me unable to function in a number of my day-to-day responsibilities.