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Trump Administration Moves to End New York's Congestion Pricing Tolls
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoHow is it going though? Some Related: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker https://www.congestion-pricing-tracker.com/ https://www.congestion-pricing-tracker.com/ (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42616700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42616700) 43K fewer drivers on Manhattan roads after congestion pricing turned on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42692730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42692730 Subway crime plummets as ridership jumps significantly in congestion pricing era https://www.amny.com/nyc-transit/nyc-subway-crime-plummets-ridership-jumps-2025/ https://www.amny.com/nyc-transit/nyc-subway-crime-plummets-r... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42958474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42958474)
- some-guy 2y agoIt unfortunately doesn't matter how good of policy it is, it's a culture-war issue.
- jimmaswell 2y agoI'm all for transit but congestion pricing never sat right with me. It's as regressive of a tax as a regressive tax can get. Ends don't justify means. And it comes off like throwing in the towel on making transit attractive enough to draw people away from driving, as if the only possible way to do so is to financially beat them into submission. I don't see that resulting in good public support for transit, stuffing it full of unwilling people who resent being herded there. On the other hand, if you make the transit good enough on its own merit, people will switch without a metaphorical cattle prod behind them. Carrot vs stick.
- ninthcat 2y agoI don't think it's quite correct to call it a regressive tax. Driving a car in Manhattan is a luxury, so this is a tax on a luxury that subsidizes transportation that works for everyone.
- AnthonyMouse 2y agoTaxes on luxury goods typically aren't expected to significantly reduce their consumption, because they're purchased by price-insensitive wealthy people. But the congestion pricing seems to be deterring use, and indeed is explicitly intended to, so who are these price-sensitive people being subject to the tax?
- kccqzy 2y agoWhere do the funds to make transit good enough come from? Hint: one funding source was cancelled today by the current administration.
- tlogan 2y agoHere is an idea: increase tax on properties worth more than 2M. Or maybe increase income tax for people who make more than 500k a year?
- kccqzy 2y agoI like both of these ideas. I hope you have success in pitching these two ideas to the relevant government.
- AnthonyMouse 2y agoThe relevant government in this case is New York, isn't it? Aren't they under the control of the opposite party from the federal government right now?
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago> It unfortunately doesn't matter how good of policy it is, it's a culture-war issue. The trouble is that also means people are cherry picking results. There was never any doubt that putting a heavy tax on something could deter use. The question is, at what cost? You now have middle income tradespeople who need a car because they have to transport their equipment paying the congestion pricing, or passing it on as higher prices to their middle income customers. It's a regressive tax. It also deters people from commuting by car, as was the intention, but without supplying an alternative to it. So now it costs more to e.g. commute from New Jersey because you either have to pay the congestion pricing or use a less convenient means of commuting. Which in turn means it costs more to live in New Jersey relative to New York, driving up demand for New York real estate and exacerbating the high rents there. Whereas if you would, for example, reduce car traffic in Manhattan by allowing taller buildings in the other burroughs from which Manhattan is conveniently accessible via subway line, you don't have a regressive tax and don't drive up overall rents, and maybe that's the better option to achieve the same goal.
- tmaly 2y agothere are still issues with the system. I took a cab from point A to point B where points A and B are both outside and above the congestion pricing zone. The taxi still tried to add a congestion pricing surcharge on my fair.
- nobody9999 2y agoThat's a different surcharge, friend. https://www.nyc.gov/site/tlc/about/congestion-surcharge.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/tlc/about/congestion-surcharge.page
- duxup 2y agoGoP, the big champion of states rights... unless you do something they don't like.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago[flagged]
- duxup 2y agoToll lanes exist many places and would seem to violate your rule. I don't think that's the issue, and explicitly that's not the reason the administration has given for their answer.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago[flagged]
- duxup 2y ago>The federal government often issues exceptions, which they're allowed to do even if they shouldn't. Are you saying the government issues exceptions for every toll lane?
- AnthonyMouse 2y agohttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/23/301 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/23/301
- fzeroracer 2y agoIf you're taking 'post roads' to mean the federal government has control over every single road across the US that is an insane overreach of federal power. Especially when it is specifically enumerated for the sake of delivering mail and has nothing to do with other use.
- drawkward 2y agoHow is this the business of the President?
- xnx 2y agoNYC should call it a transportation tariff and then DJT would love it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tlogan 2y agoA regressive tax like this should have no place in the Democratic agenda. Across the state, 47% of people oppose the congestion tax, while only 27% support it. Meanwhile, Manhattanites—the wealthiest group—are the most in favor, with 57% supporting it and just 32% opposed. Unbelievable that Trump managed to steal this issue…
- acdha 2y agoDriving a car in Manhattan is inherently regressive: in addition to the high cost of owning, insuring, and operating one you’re looking at a ton of money for parking in one of the densest parts of the country. This forces an interesting dynamic: congestion pricing makes the city healthier and safer for everyone who actually lives there, speeds transit for (on average) poorer people, but it’s portrayed as regressive by the (on average) more affluent people who expect a city that they don’t live in remade for their convenience because they’ve already locked in a more expensive lifestyle.
- tlogan 2y agoA better approach would be to tax properties worth more than $2 million and use the revenue to improve public transit. Another option: increase income taxes on those earning over $500K a year. But, of course, the wealthy resist any tax that actually affects them. And Trump looked the polls found out that nearly two-thirds of New Yorkers oppose congestion pricing and now he is “hero”.
- acdha 2y agoEveryone who lives in the city has been paying to subsidize suburban commuters for decades, at great expense to their health, lives, and quality of life. It seems unfair to say they should pay more in taxes so non-residents don’t have to pay for what they use. Congestion pricing is a market-based approach for dividing a limited resource. Cars are just too inefficient for that many people to drive in a city and you need some way to reduce the ensuing negative externalities.
- 2y ago
- daft_pink 2y agoCharging for access to roads funded by our tax dollars should not be permitted. While it is reasonable for a privately built and owned bridge to have a toll, roads constructed with federal funds, such as those in Manhattan, should be accessible to everyone without additional charges. Allowing cities to impose fees on roads we've already paid for could lead to other areas, like small communities along highways, implementing similar tolls. For instance, a community in Chicago attempted to limit access to a public road during certain hours to residents only, but to do so, they had to finance the road entirely on their own, which they did. There is a community in Chicago where they tried to restrict access to a public road during certain hours except certain residents and to do that they had to pay for the road in it’s entirety, which they did.
- acdha 2y ago> roads constructed with federal funds, such as those in Manhattan Does this mean that you are calling for the federal government to take over road construction and maintenance in New York City? The people who want to get rid of congestion pricing don’t live or pay taxes to the city so that would be more fair in a sense.
- daft_pink 2y agoNot at all. I'm simply stating that when you receive Federal or State grants or assistance for a portion of your road system that you have to accept the restrictions placed on that funding and the road should benefit everyone. We build roads as a country so that everyone can use them not so your local government can use them as a revenue source. It's very likely that 30%-50% of the cost of the roads was paid for with Federal $'s. This is not any different than the idea that if you accept Federal money for research dollars, you should not turn around and charge enormous sums for access to the research. It doesn't mean that the Federal government took over your research.
- acdha 2y agoBy that logic, we shouldn’t have toll roads either but they’ve been necessary to pay for the enormously expensive projects demanded by users of the least efficient transportation option. The problem here is basic math: people driving cars need an order of magnitude more space than any other transportation option, and there simply isn’t room for that in a city. Basic economics tells us that when there’s more demand than a limited supply prices should rise to encourage more efficient decision. There just isn’t an option where suburban commuters can drive into Manhattan and magically have room for all of those cars, and that’s before you even attempt to price in all of the years of quality life lost due to the direct injuries and indirect pollution from their cars. The last month has been full of reports showing that everything is better for NYC residents due to reduced congestion, so their interests need to factor into this discussion about their city, too.
- yongjik 2y agoMaybe unpopular opinion: Democrats should just grow a spine and say "Nah this is state issues, we're gonna keep congestion pricing, thank you very much. Come and tear down the toll booths yourself if you want to." Nicety is dead. Playing nice only sets you up for more humiliation. It's time the Dems started playing dirty.
- armchairhacker 2y ago> Mr. Duffy did not indicate a specific date by which the federal government intended to end the program. and (in direct response to "LONG LIVE THE KING!") > Ms. Hochul defended the congestion pricing program on Wednesday and vowed to fight the president’s move. > “We are a nation of laws, not ruled by a king,” she said in a written statement. “We’ll see you in court.”
- locallost 2y agoIt's a pity some people are against the free market and the simple law of supply and demand. The fact is roads cost money, and we can't possibly fit all cars on the road, thus there needs to be some kind of a mechanism of regulation so that traffic works. I don't see why not just let the market deal with it, especially since in the US everything otherwise needs to be economical including healthcare. But somehow car drivers need to be coddled.
- Xlythe 2y agoEven as a (dark) joke, the official @WhiteHouse Twitter post on NYC's congestion pricing is uncomfortable: https://xcancel.com/WhiteHouse/status/1892295984928993698 https://xcancel.com/WhiteHouse/status/1892295984928993698 The president is not a king.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]