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Think of the QC modem as an API and that API is limited to what QC wants apple or anyone else using their modem to do. The firmware is pushed by QC and then app

Think of the QC modem as an API and that API is limited to what QC wants apple or anyone else using their modem to do. The firmware is pushed by QC and then apple can use it to update it’s modems of QC when it does it’s now updates. Now with C1 that API is designed at apple and in a way that their soc team wants to get the best battery life along. So the modem can be turned off / on updated request data signals etc in a more efficient manner with the soc. On top of that apple probably cleaned up parts of the modem that they probably didn’t feel were needed for their iPhones that maybe QC were obligated to include because of the way their modems had to be designed and sold. Now do this to Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and put everything in the soc and you are going to be getting solid gains sooner than later. This transition is very exciting cause I’m hoping this happens to MacBooks as well. Would love a 5G MacBook with a data plan.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago
I’m hoping for 5G MacBook too. Tethering even amongst new phone and laptops still feels very early 2000s with how clunky it is plus the “failed to connect with hotspot for inexplicable reason” Low Data Mode would need to be better enforced at the OS level (maybe with even per-app prompts and data usage tracking - safari and music can use 5G but maybe Arq backups shouldn’t)
megous 2y ago
That's hard to believe. Even Quectel (random Chinese IoT modem manufacturer, which is also using Qualcomm modem SoCs) gets to have Qualcomm modem source code. I know, because they ship it modified with their own AT commands implemented and other changes. If random chinese company can ship modified Qualcomm modem firmware, Apple surely can, too. :D Massive chunks (millions of lines) of Qualcomm modem firmware (the part running on Hexagon DSP cores) are even leaked on github for anyone to see. Apple is bound to have uptodate and probably even completely source available Qualcomm firmware at its engineers' fingertips. And they have more leverage than random Chinese IoT manufacturer, to request ability to modify it as they see fit. And they'll certainly have at least the parts that are relevant for the control you're talking about. The decision most likely comes down to politics (any help optimizing qualcomm modems directly benefits everyone using them, and that's a lot of android phones out there), and not these kinds of technical issues.
makeitdouble 2y ago
> Would love a 5G MacBook with a data plan. I thoroughly enjoyed the ATP podcast discussion on this. Sounds like the base assumption is Apple is incapable of having decent tethering even as they control the whole ecosystem, including special protocols in-between their product they design 100% from hardware to software. But somehow pushing the modem in the MacBook solves this...because Apple is then good at managing transient network connections in macos, hooking to complex mesh networks on protocols they don't control ? To my eyes Apple being unable to realize these dreamlike expectations is probably the very reason MacBooks don't have modems.
- hug 2y ago
  > Apple is incapable of having decent tethering even as they control the whole ecosystem Are they, though? Tethering from my MacBook to my iPhone or iPad is a pretty seamless experience, to the point I don't even think about it. And sometimes I get home from a cafe and forget I'm even tethering until I notice my iPhone battery is lower than expected. And this isn't Apple, but I don't even notice I'm not on my home LAN because of tailscale. It's definitely significantly easier than dealing with built in WWAN devices & ModemManager on my linux laptop. (Or Windows, when I used it on that same hardware.)
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    If your sentiment is the most common, including a modem in MacBooks makes only sense for the tiniest of tiniest of user slice, and with Apple barely cattering to pro users, I can't imagine them investing further to solve a problem that isn't as simple as just slapping an extra part in the machine (which they traditionally hate). On my side it was 90% there, a bit lagging to connect and totally failing from time to time , once in a week perhaps, but workable otherwise. The argument on the podcast was for having a 100% great solution like it does on the iPad, assuming an internal modem on macos would rainbows and ponnies.
- benoittravers 2y ago
  Do you have a link to that podcast about 5G MacBook?
specialist 2y ago
> ...Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and put everything in the SOC... Maybe UWB, NFC, GPS too, right? Noob question: these things have software defined radio something DSP something angry pixies. And the just add Rx/Tx stuff as needed. Right? AM, FM, CB, whatever support would be cool.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago

I’m hoping for 5G MacBook too. Tethering even amongst new phone and laptops still feels very early 2000s with how clunky it is plus the “failed to connect with hotspot for inexplicable reason” Low Data Mode would need to be better enforced at the OS level (maybe with even per-app prompts and data usage tracking - safari and music can use 5G but maybe Arq backups shouldn’t)

megous 2y ago

That's hard to believe. Even Quectel (random Chinese IoT modem manufacturer, which is also using Qualcomm modem SoCs) gets to have Qualcomm modem source code. I know, because they ship it modified with their own AT commands implemented and other changes. If random chinese company can ship modified Qualcomm modem firmware, Apple surely can, too. :D Massive chunks (millions of lines) of Qualcomm modem firmware (the part running on Hexagon DSP cores) are even leaked on github for anyone to see. Apple is bound to have uptodate and probably even completely source available Qualcomm firmware at its engineers' fingertips. And they have more leverage than random Chinese IoT manufacturer, to request ability to modify it as they see fit. And they'll certainly have at least the parts that are relevant for the control you're talking about. The decision most likely comes down to politics (any help optimizing qualcomm modems directly benefits everyone using them, and that's a lot of android phones out there), and not these kinds of technical issues.

makeitdouble 2y ago

> Would love a 5G MacBook with a data plan. I thoroughly enjoyed the ATP podcast discussion on this. Sounds like the base assumption is Apple is incapable of having decent tethering even as they control the whole ecosystem, including special protocols in-between their product they design 100% from hardware to software. But somehow pushing the modem in the MacBook solves this...because Apple is then good at managing transient network connections in macos, hooking to complex mesh networks on protocols they don't control ? To my eyes Apple being unable to realize these dreamlike expectations is probably the very reason MacBooks don't have modems.

hug 2y ago
> Apple is incapable of having decent tethering even as they control the whole ecosystem Are they, though? Tethering from my MacBook to my iPhone or iPad is a pretty seamless experience, to the point I don't even think about it. And sometimes I get home from a cafe and forget I'm even tethering until I notice my iPhone battery is lower than expected. And this isn't Apple, but I don't even notice I'm not on my home LAN because of tailscale. It's definitely significantly easier than dealing with built in WWAN devices & ModemManager on my linux laptop. (Or Windows, when I used it on that same hardware.)
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  If your sentiment is the most common, including a modem in MacBooks makes only sense for the tiniest of tiniest of user slice, and with Apple barely cattering to pro users, I can't imagine them investing further to solve a problem that isn't as simple as just slapping an extra part in the machine (which they traditionally hate). On my side it was 90% there, a bit lagging to connect and totally failing from time to time , once in a week perhaps, but workable otherwise. The argument on the podcast was for having a 100% great solution like it does on the iPad, assuming an internal modem on macos would rainbows and ponnies.
benoittravers 2y ago
Do you have a link to that podcast about 5G MacBook?

specialist 2y ago

> ...Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and put everything in the SOC... Maybe UWB, NFC, GPS too, right? Noob question: these things have software defined radio something DSP something angry pixies. And the just add Rx/Tx stuff as needed. Right? AM, FM, CB, whatever support would be cool.