9 ms·

At this point there’s only really one thing I want from an iPhone and that’s an option for a 12/13 mini sized device again. Surely those phones didn’t sell so f

At this point there’s only really one thing I want from an iPhone and that’s an option for a 12/13 mini sized device again. Surely those phones didn’t sell so few that it’s not worth doing at all?

Etheryte 2y ago
If they can standardize their whole lineup around two sizes, regular and max, then I think it will be a very hard sell to add extra work and complexity for the production lines for a smaller size that sells both lower volumes and lower price. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mini and have one right now, but from a business management perspective I can totally see how getting rid of it makes sense. Another aspect that I think is often missed is that the Mini physically cannot offer the same battery life as other iPhones. Many say they don't mind this, but over time as the battery life deteriorates, it becomes a pain point all the same. I think that is another aspect of why they don't like the small form factor.
- cpach 2y ago
  AFAIK Samsung doesn’t offer any mini devices either. If that’s true, it’s probably for the same reasons Apple doesn’t.
  - JavierFlores09 2y ago
    Well, in the case of Samsung, I imagine they would rather not want to in order to promote their Z Flip series instead. More compact than any Mini version would potentially be. Though I guess for the people who like their phones to be able to fit in their hand, it doesn't make much of a difference.
- michaelt 2y ago
  > I think it will be a very hard sell to add extra work for the production lines for a smaller size The Toyota Corolla sells 1 million units a year worldwide - it's totally practical and realistic to set up a production line to make 1 million devices a year. Apple sells 200 million iphones a year. That's why they're happy to make the iPhone 16, 16 Plus, 16 Pro, 16 Pro Max and 16e and offer them in 4-5 colours per model as well. It's something else - probably sales.
  - jmkni 2y ago
    Is there also an added effort around making iOS work on the smaller screen size/resolution as well though? If they can standardise those, they might end up with an easier OS to maintain once the Mini (sadly) is no longer supported
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      You can zoom the screen anyway.
    - kmeisthax 2y ago
      AFAIK it's 360px wide, the same as on larger phones. You can of course enable an accessibility option to take it down to 320px width, which was the iOS standard for almost a decade and only stopped being a standard iOS resolution when they killed off the iPod touch.
- asdff 2y ago
  Battery life deteriorating is only a pain point because they make it so users can't trivially service the battery themselves. It is amazing seeing the walk back over the years from sensible affordances to the consumer to binning those features behind expensive repairs. I still remember my ibook where you could pop out the keyboard with your fingers and pop out the battery with a dime. I remember when they released the unibody macbook and they gave you a simple clasp to access both the battery and the hard drive as they were anticipating consumers shifting to SSDs in the near future in 2010 and wanted to offer an affordance. Slowly that went away. The latch went away for a dozen small screws that are easy to strip and lose. Eventually the ability to change out the drive or the battery yourself went away too. Slippery slope of setting up user expectations for a worse version of the product in a few generations from certain standpoints. Sure it is faster but imagine if it was faster and also as serviceable as devices used to be. There isn't good reason for it other than to gouge you when you spec out your macbook at rates that are always at a convenient premium over today's prices for these hardware.
  - walterbell 2y ago
    EU mandate for removable batteries will restore lost flexibility. Even repair/replace is improving, with new aftermarket storage upgrades for Macbooks.
  - seec 2y ago
    Exactly. I had this MacBook. It is legendary, they made it at a great price point with most of the qualities and features of the more expensive Pros of the time. It didn't last long, they axed it the next year, figuring they were leaving money on the table. Its weakness was the terrible iGPU in the Intel chip, you couldn't do much serious graphical work with it until you would get the spinner of doom. I think this is really "peak Apple" era. Most stuff they did after Jobs death is re-heated or poorly designed/conceived. Apple is just a luxury brand nowadays because they have lost focus on the user, it's a bit maddening that they are getting so rich from it but I guess that's how it is...
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I am still using my 13 Mini. I got it, because I knew that it would be the last Mini Apple does. I plan to use it, until I need to charge the battery every 15 minutes.
- robin_reala 2y ago
  Then replace the battery and carry on using it?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    May end up doing that. We'll see. I also write software for these beasties, and it may well be that I won't be able to justify avoiding getting one that has Apple Intelligence.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Eventually, Apple (and 3p developers) will abandon you, and you'll need to throw away a perfectly good phone and take another step on the treadmill. I'm still hanging on to my perfectly working iPhone 7, while app developers tell me to fuck off left and right. It does everything I want a phone to do, but developers consider "old phones" to be icky and stop supporting them.
      - layer8 2y ago
        Eventually yes, but the 13 is less than 3.5 years old and will likely receive iOS updates for another 3.5 years. And most apps support one or two iOS versions into the past. I agree it’s not ideal, but ~8 years of use isn’t that bad either.
      - bschwindHN 2y ago
        Yup - it was the same for me with the 2016 SE. Still runs perfectly fine, we're still doing the same old CRUD web shit for apps, but apparently now our apps are so much more advanced that there's no possible way they could keep supporting that "legacy" hardware. https://blog.bschwind.com/2025/01/11/the-original-iphone-se-is-the-best-iphone-apple-ever-made/ https://blog.bschwind.com/2025/01/11/the-original-iphone-se-...
dageshi 2y ago
Based on previous conversations on this topic, I think the issue is that people don't actually prioritise the mini size above all else. In other words whatever size the audience is for a mini phone they are further fragmented into people who want a flagship phone vs mid range phone vs budget phone. And those market segments are too small to make it worth Apple or even most android manufacturers effort.
- musictubes 2y ago
  Exactly. So many people commented on tech sites that they loved the mini sized device but didn’t buy it because they want a pro spec mini. Like there aren’t any trade offs by making the phone smaller. Apple arguably made the best small phone ever made and plenty of supposedly small phone lovers turned their nose up at it. Turns out even they value other things more than the size.
mannyv 2y ago
The Mini didn't sell well...for an iPhone. I have a 13 mini and will use it until it dies...just like the SE before it.
mattgreenrocks 2y ago
The best part about my 12 mini is that it's such a pain to use sometimes on the modern web that it discourages unnecessary browsing. Alas, the battery was already subpar on it and now is quite bad, so I'll probably pick up this SE.
- thebigspacefuck 2y ago
  Never felt that way about my 13 mini
  - abnercoimbre 2y ago
    Do you still own it? I've kept my 13 mini so far, but I hope the browsing or app experience doesn't degrade anytime soon (battery's still great.)
    - icedchai 2y ago
      I still have my 13 mini, but it is feeling somewhat slower with each major iOS release. Still I can probably get a few more years out of it.
      - debian3 2y ago
        Maybe the battery. I’m typing this on my 13 mini and it’s as fast as it’s ever been. I still have apple care+ on mine. I knew they will probably never make a new one again. I use it without a case, so when I drop it break the screen or something, I just get an express replacement. There is a small fee ($100 or something) and I basically get a brand new iPhone mini. Hopefully their replacement stock last for a while.
        icedchai 2y ago
        The maximum battery capacity is showing 83%, which seems decent. The phone is over 3 years old now. And I love the Mini form factor. I want something that fits in my pocket...
xattt 2y ago
They’ll be flipping the small-size formula by making it a premium feature, and calling it “Air” in the next couple of releases.
robohoe 2y ago
Still using 12 mini! I'll take it to the grave with me
coldpie 2y ago
The iPhone 13 Mini all by itself sold about the half of the rate of the entire Google Pixel lineup. There is a market for small phones from a reputable manufacturer. Source: Google shipped about 10 million Pixel phones in a year https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/ https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/ iPhone Mini accounted for about 3% of iPhone sales https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-lineup-in-recent-years-despite-tiny-interest-in-iphone-mini/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l... iPhones sell about 200 million units per year https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/ https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/ 200 million * 0.03 = 6 million iPhone Minis per year
- mdasen 2y ago
  The thing I'd add is that Apple often achieves what it does by doing less. People assume that because Apple makes great things that they can make a lot of different great things. But that's where a lot of other companies falter: they make too many different things to really make a few great things. Small phones are also difficult. Memory, processors, and batteries don't shrink. For an iPhone mini, they're going to be shipping essentially the same chips taking up the same amount of space. That space is going to have to come at the expense of things like the battery and cooling. It's a lot easier to engineer something with looser tolerances. If you have a giant phone, it's easy to have extra room to keep the phone cool and stuff in a battery. It also probably meant limiting some choices for the rest of the iPhone lineup. Apple wants to be able to re-use components and to some extent it's going to mean that Apple either has to make choices that work for both a 6.1" and 5.4" form factor or do separate things. There is some demand for an iPhone mini. I love the iPhone mini. I also see the challenge for Apple. I think there's also a reason why we haven't seen a successful Android mini phone. It's hard to make a mini phone and the sales numbers are comparatively small. But maybe we'll see an iPhone mini in a few years time. If Apple can create an integrated CPU/modem/WiFi/Bluetooth chip, that could end up saving a decent amount of space while also reducing power requirements. Maybe we'll be able to go SIM-less around the world and that could save space. At the same time, it's hard to make the same number of people make another, more challenging form factor and it's hard to scale out with more people too. Plus, do you put your best engineers on the hardest project (the mini) when it's only 3% of sales? Or do you hire new, less experienced, possibly lower skilled people for that and hope you don't put out a product that isn't good? It's a tough challenge for a tiny amount of sales which, ultimately, aren't going to decide to leave Apple for Android where they also can't get a small phone.
sdo72 2y ago
still using my 13 mini after 3.5 years, the battery is at 84%, still good for 1.5 day of light usage.
- beretguy 2y ago
  Still using my SE from 2016.
rplnt 2y ago
It might be a good idea to just buy the 13 mini. It's not like anything on phones got any better in the last 4 years. And it's still available, for roughly 30% less compared to before it was discontinued by Apple. Which might be the answer to your question actually.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Is any place actually selling them new?
owenversteeg 2y ago
A handful of years ago, before anyone had figured out how to properly optimize for attention, we all had small-screen phones. The “small phone” problem is really just that it’s not as addictive. Apple wants you to spend more time on-screen [0] and so do you [1.] I really hope you’re not thinking about spending less time on-screen. Technology companies love you and care about you. They usually know what’s best. You should probably just get a bigger screen. [0] see: massive financial incentives, developer tooling to help maximize engagement, product design focused on extended use, notoriously useless screen time feature etc [1] we don’t have exact mini sales, but estimates are they were around 6% of total iPhone sales (aka: low, but billions a year in revenue, enough to keep barring other incentives) - more revenue than many other Apple products or the SE, for example. Even if you’re Apple you don’t axe billions in revenue for nothing!
- culi 2y ago
  Is there actual research suggesting smaller screens promote less screen time?
  - owenversteeg 2y ago
    The overwhelming majority of the research on any industry is either directly funded by or indirectly influenced by the industry. This is true for everything from the obvious (pharmaceuticals, smartphones, tobacco historically) to the less obvious (say paint, milk, or drill bits.) In other words, "what does the research say" is a different way to phrase "what is financially valuable to the industry?" One problem I have with what I will term "Trust-the-Science-ism" is that it inherently assumes safety of anything novel; the burden of proof is on the individual to prove it's unsafe, because the corporations care about you, and you should trust the science. PFASs, plasticizers, modern flame retardants, child use of smartphones/social media, general use of screens, et cetera. In reality, who knows if a novel thing is safe? Why not test it out in a truly rigorous fashion? If the benefits from this new thing are so great, we as a society could pay for this thousands of times over. Sadly the incentives never align, these new inventions are rarely challenged, and their studies rarely approach rigor. So, what does the research say on the subject? Nothing, as it turns out - there's nothing substantial published. Why? Well, we know where the influence and interests lie.
apparent 2y ago
Rumor is that the 17 will have an Air edition that will be thinner/lighter. It won't help the reach issues much but will make them nicer to hold for extended periods of time. IME the minis are nice because of both weight and the ability to comfortably use with one hand.
- layer8 2y ago
  The Air model will be 6.6”. It will be lighter than the Plus model it replaces, but I wouldn’t necessarily expect it to be lighter than the regular models. And certainly not usable with one hand.
  - Nition 2y ago
    And won't fit well in a pocket. :(
    - layer8 2y ago
      Yep. A 6.1” Air would have been nice, but at 6.6” it’s kind of in a weird place.
  - apparent 2y ago
    Where is it being reliably reported that it's a 6.6" model? Seems like it's still pretty early to know something like this with any certainty.
- crossroadsguy 2y ago
  Size/dimension is the problem!
beretguy 2y ago
I want a 4 inch screen. Like 1st Gen SE.
ksec 2y ago
I am actually optimistic that we might get the mini again now the 16e is priced at $599. There is a space for Mini at $499. Part of the problem with Mini was its battery life. It seems 16e is improving on exactly that. Although I think it wont be 5.4" again since it was too small compared to the rest of the line up where it is usually 20% bigger screen to next size up. May be 5.6" or even 5.8" as the original X.
- layer8 2y ago
  I don’t think there is space, because the production costs of a mini model aren’t substantially lower. Remember that when the 12 mini launched, its price was the same as the 11, and the regular 12 got $100 more expensive.
  - ksec 2y ago
    The mini did exactly and precisely bump up the whole product range pricing. So the regular iPhone 12 got to $799 instead of $699. A 16e Mini will make the 16e product range starts at $499.
    - layer8 2y ago
      I just don’t think that a 16e mini at $499 would give Apple enough margin. The Face ID components are reportedly not cheap, OLED is also more expensive than LCD, they didn’t up the price to $599 just for fun.
      - ksec 2y ago
        OLED is not expensive and can be cheaper than LCD. There is nothing expensive about BOM in iPhone 16e. Face ID used in the current notch form is also not expensive. We are 7 years into FaceID component already. There are reason why Android could pay Qualcomm for SoC while still selling for $199. It is selling 16e at 14 price range with one camera less, which is actually a relatively expensive part in terms of BOM and extra GB of memory. Along with cost saving of its own modem, the $599 is there not to cannibalise sales on 16 which is the heavy margin product range.
bscphil 2y ago
It's especially disappointing to see that they killed off the SE with this release, as it was the previous inexpensive and smaller option. The screen alone on this new 16e is larger across the diagonal than the entire device on the SE 3rd edition, and the SE famously had the traditional huge bezel.
stefandesu 2y ago
Yes please. My new job just provided me with a new phone, but all the models are just too big. I guess I’ll get used to it, but I’d rather have the current features in a Mini body.
Coryodaniel 2y ago
Staying on my 13 mini until someone makes a dumb phone that doesn’t suck.
paulcole 2y ago
> Surely those phones didn’t sell so few that it’s not worth doing at all? That is literally what happened.
hooch 2y ago
With the C1 modem and in-house wifi/bluetooth, here's hoping that Apple is ready to revisit the mini-sized phone!
jbverschoor 2y ago
They stopped with the mini during COVID So many people are interested in which phone I have. It’s a 12mini. Won’t upgrade to 13mini bc that doesn’t make any sense. I simply don’t want a bulky phone.
quitit 2y ago
Even if they only do one every 4 years.
knubie 2y ago
I'm still using my iphone12 mini and still holding out that someone makes a similar sized phone. I would love to see a slightly thicker version to accommodate a larger batter and no camera bump, but at this point a small, thick phone seems almost unimaginable.

Etheryte 2y ago

If they can standardize their whole lineup around two sizes, regular and max, then I think it will be a very hard sell to add extra work and complexity for the production lines for a smaller size that sells both lower volumes and lower price. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mini and have one right now, but from a business management perspective I can totally see how getting rid of it makes sense. Another aspect that I think is often missed is that the Mini physically cannot offer the same battery life as other iPhones. Many say they don't mind this, but over time as the battery life deteriorates, it becomes a pain point all the same. I think that is another aspect of why they don't like the small form factor.

cpach 2y ago
AFAIK Samsung doesn’t offer any mini devices either. If that’s true, it’s probably for the same reasons Apple doesn’t.
- JavierFlores09 2y ago
  Well, in the case of Samsung, I imagine they would rather not want to in order to promote their Z Flip series instead. More compact than any Mini version would potentially be. Though I guess for the people who like their phones to be able to fit in their hand, it doesn't make much of a difference.
michaelt 2y ago
> I think it will be a very hard sell to add extra work for the production lines for a smaller size The Toyota Corolla sells 1 million units a year worldwide - it's totally practical and realistic to set up a production line to make 1 million devices a year. Apple sells 200 million iphones a year. That's why they're happy to make the iPhone 16, 16 Plus, 16 Pro, 16 Pro Max and 16e and offer them in 4-5 colours per model as well. It's something else - probably sales.
- jmkni 2y ago
  Is there also an added effort around making iOS work on the smaller screen size/resolution as well though? If they can standardise those, they might end up with an easier OS to maintain once the Mini (sadly) is no longer supported
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    You can zoom the screen anyway.
  - kmeisthax 2y ago
    AFAIK it's 360px wide, the same as on larger phones. You can of course enable an accessibility option to take it down to 320px width, which was the iOS standard for almost a decade and only stopped being a standard iOS resolution when they killed off the iPod touch.
asdff 2y ago
Battery life deteriorating is only a pain point because they make it so users can't trivially service the battery themselves. It is amazing seeing the walk back over the years from sensible affordances to the consumer to binning those features behind expensive repairs. I still remember my ibook where you could pop out the keyboard with your fingers and pop out the battery with a dime. I remember when they released the unibody macbook and they gave you a simple clasp to access both the battery and the hard drive as they were anticipating consumers shifting to SSDs in the near future in 2010 and wanted to offer an affordance. Slowly that went away. The latch went away for a dozen small screws that are easy to strip and lose. Eventually the ability to change out the drive or the battery yourself went away too. Slippery slope of setting up user expectations for a worse version of the product in a few generations from certain standpoints. Sure it is faster but imagine if it was faster and also as serviceable as devices used to be. There isn't good reason for it other than to gouge you when you spec out your macbook at rates that are always at a convenient premium over today's prices for these hardware.
- walterbell 2y ago
  EU mandate for removable batteries will restore lost flexibility. Even repair/replace is improving, with new aftermarket storage upgrades for Macbooks.
- seec 2y ago
  Exactly. I had this MacBook. It is legendary, they made it at a great price point with most of the qualities and features of the more expensive Pros of the time. It didn't last long, they axed it the next year, figuring they were leaving money on the table. Its weakness was the terrible iGPU in the Intel chip, you couldn't do much serious graphical work with it until you would get the spinner of doom. I think this is really "peak Apple" era. Most stuff they did after Jobs death is re-heated or poorly designed/conceived. Apple is just a luxury brand nowadays because they have lost focus on the user, it's a bit maddening that they are getting so rich from it but I guess that's how it is...

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

I am still using my 13 Mini. I got it, because I knew that it would be the last Mini Apple does. I plan to use it, until I need to charge the battery every 15 minutes.

robin_reala 2y ago
Then replace the battery and carry on using it?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  May end up doing that. We'll see. I also write software for these beasties, and it may well be that I won't be able to justify avoiding getting one that has Apple Intelligence.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Eventually, Apple (and 3p developers) will abandon you, and you'll need to throw away a perfectly good phone and take another step on the treadmill. I'm still hanging on to my perfectly working iPhone 7, while app developers tell me to fuck off left and right. It does everything I want a phone to do, but developers consider "old phones" to be icky and stop supporting them.
    - layer8 2y ago
      Eventually yes, but the 13 is less than 3.5 years old and will likely receive iOS updates for another 3.5 years. And most apps support one or two iOS versions into the past. I agree it’s not ideal, but ~8 years of use isn’t that bad either.
    - bschwindHN 2y ago
      Yup - it was the same for me with the 2016 SE. Still runs perfectly fine, we're still doing the same old CRUD web shit for apps, but apparently now our apps are so much more advanced that there's no possible way they could keep supporting that "legacy" hardware. https://blog.bschwind.com/2025/01/11/the-original-iphone-se-is-the-best-iphone-apple-ever-made/ https://blog.bschwind.com/2025/01/11/the-original-iphone-se-...

dageshi 2y ago

Based on previous conversations on this topic, I think the issue is that people don't actually prioritise the mini size above all else. In other words whatever size the audience is for a mini phone they are further fragmented into people who want a flagship phone vs mid range phone vs budget phone. And those market segments are too small to make it worth Apple or even most android manufacturers effort.

musictubes 2y ago
Exactly. So many people commented on tech sites that they loved the mini sized device but didn’t buy it because they want a pro spec mini. Like there aren’t any trade offs by making the phone smaller. Apple arguably made the best small phone ever made and plenty of supposedly small phone lovers turned their nose up at it. Turns out even they value other things more than the size.

mannyv 2y ago

The Mini didn't sell well...for an iPhone. I have a 13 mini and will use it until it dies...just like the SE before it.

mattgreenrocks 2y ago

The best part about my 12 mini is that it's such a pain to use sometimes on the modern web that it discourages unnecessary browsing. Alas, the battery was already subpar on it and now is quite bad, so I'll probably pick up this SE.

thebigspacefuck 2y ago
Never felt that way about my 13 mini
- abnercoimbre 2y ago
  Do you still own it? I've kept my 13 mini so far, but I hope the browsing or app experience doesn't degrade anytime soon (battery's still great.)
  - icedchai 2y ago
    I still have my 13 mini, but it is feeling somewhat slower with each major iOS release. Still I can probably get a few more years out of it.
    - debian3 2y ago
      Maybe the battery. I’m typing this on my 13 mini and it’s as fast as it’s ever been. I still have apple care+ on mine. I knew they will probably never make a new one again. I use it without a case, so when I drop it break the screen or something, I just get an express replacement. There is a small fee ($100 or something) and I basically get a brand new iPhone mini. Hopefully their replacement stock last for a while.
      - icedchai 2y ago
        The maximum battery capacity is showing 83%, which seems decent. The phone is over 3 years old now. And I love the Mini form factor. I want something that fits in my pocket...

xattt 2y ago

They’ll be flipping the small-size formula by making it a premium feature, and calling it “Air” in the next couple of releases.

robohoe 2y ago

Still using 12 mini! I'll take it to the grave with me

coldpie 2y ago

The iPhone 13 Mini all by itself sold about the half of the rate of the entire Google Pixel lineup. There is a market for small phones from a reputable manufacturer. Source: Google shipped about 10 million Pixel phones in a year https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/ https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/ iPhone Mini accounted for about 3% of iPhone sales https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-lineup-in-recent-years-despite-tiny-interest-in-iphone-mini/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l... iPhones sell about 200 million units per year https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/ https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/ 200 million * 0.03 = 6 million iPhone Minis per year

mdasen 2y ago
The thing I'd add is that Apple often achieves what it does by doing less. People assume that because Apple makes great things that they can make a lot of different great things. But that's where a lot of other companies falter: they make too many different things to really make a few great things. Small phones are also difficult. Memory, processors, and batteries don't shrink. For an iPhone mini, they're going to be shipping essentially the same chips taking up the same amount of space. That space is going to have to come at the expense of things like the battery and cooling. It's a lot easier to engineer something with looser tolerances. If you have a giant phone, it's easy to have extra room to keep the phone cool and stuff in a battery. It also probably meant limiting some choices for the rest of the iPhone lineup. Apple wants to be able to re-use components and to some extent it's going to mean that Apple either has to make choices that work for both a 6.1" and 5.4" form factor or do separate things. There is some demand for an iPhone mini. I love the iPhone mini. I also see the challenge for Apple. I think there's also a reason why we haven't seen a successful Android mini phone. It's hard to make a mini phone and the sales numbers are comparatively small. But maybe we'll see an iPhone mini in a few years time. If Apple can create an integrated CPU/modem/WiFi/Bluetooth chip, that could end up saving a decent amount of space while also reducing power requirements. Maybe we'll be able to go SIM-less around the world and that could save space. At the same time, it's hard to make the same number of people make another, more challenging form factor and it's hard to scale out with more people too. Plus, do you put your best engineers on the hardest project (the mini) when it's only 3% of sales? Or do you hire new, less experienced, possibly lower skilled people for that and hope you don't put out a product that isn't good? It's a tough challenge for a tiny amount of sales which, ultimately, aren't going to decide to leave Apple for Android where they also can't get a small phone.

sdo72 2y ago

still using my 13 mini after 3.5 years, the battery is at 84%, still good for 1.5 day of light usage.

beretguy 2y ago
Still using my SE from 2016.

rplnt 2y ago

It might be a good idea to just buy the 13 mini. It's not like anything on phones got any better in the last 4 years. And it's still available, for roughly 30% less compared to before it was discontinued by Apple. Which might be the answer to your question actually.

saagarjha 2y ago
Is any place actually selling them new?

owenversteeg 2y ago

A handful of years ago, before anyone had figured out how to properly optimize for attention, we all had small-screen phones. The “small phone” problem is really just that it’s not as addictive. Apple wants you to spend more time on-screen [0] and so do you [1.] I really hope you’re not thinking about spending less time on-screen. Technology companies love you and care about you. They usually know what’s best. You should probably just get a bigger screen. [0] see: massive financial incentives, developer tooling to help maximize engagement, product design focused on extended use, notoriously useless screen time feature etc [1] we don’t have exact mini sales, but estimates are they were around 6% of total iPhone sales (aka: low, but billions a year in revenue, enough to keep barring other incentives) - more revenue than many other Apple products or the SE, for example. Even if you’re Apple you don’t axe billions in revenue for nothing!

culi 2y ago
Is there actual research suggesting smaller screens promote less screen time?
- owenversteeg 2y ago
  The overwhelming majority of the research on any industry is either directly funded by or indirectly influenced by the industry. This is true for everything from the obvious (pharmaceuticals, smartphones, tobacco historically) to the less obvious (say paint, milk, or drill bits.) In other words, "what does the research say" is a different way to phrase "what is financially valuable to the industry?" One problem I have with what I will term "Trust-the-Science-ism" is that it inherently assumes safety of anything novel; the burden of proof is on the individual to prove it's unsafe, because the corporations care about you, and you should trust the science. PFASs, plasticizers, modern flame retardants, child use of smartphones/social media, general use of screens, et cetera. In reality, who knows if a novel thing is safe? Why not test it out in a truly rigorous fashion? If the benefits from this new thing are so great, we as a society could pay for this thousands of times over. Sadly the incentives never align, these new inventions are rarely challenged, and their studies rarely approach rigor. So, what does the research say on the subject? Nothing, as it turns out - there's nothing substantial published. Why? Well, we know where the influence and interests lie.

apparent 2y ago

Rumor is that the 17 will have an Air edition that will be thinner/lighter. It won't help the reach issues much but will make them nicer to hold for extended periods of time. IME the minis are nice because of both weight and the ability to comfortably use with one hand.

layer8 2y ago
The Air model will be 6.6”. It will be lighter than the Plus model it replaces, but I wouldn’t necessarily expect it to be lighter than the regular models. And certainly not usable with one hand.
- Nition 2y ago
  And won't fit well in a pocket. :(
  - layer8 2y ago
    Yep. A 6.1” Air would have been nice, but at 6.6” it’s kind of in a weird place.
- apparent 2y ago
  Where is it being reliably reported that it's a 6.6" model? Seems like it's still pretty early to know something like this with any certainty.
crossroadsguy 2y ago
Size/dimension is the problem!

beretguy 2y ago

I want a 4 inch screen. Like 1st Gen SE.

ksec 2y ago

I am actually optimistic that we might get the mini again now the 16e is priced at $599. There is a space for Mini at $499. Part of the problem with Mini was its battery life. It seems 16e is improving on exactly that. Although I think it wont be 5.4" again since it was too small compared to the rest of the line up where it is usually 20% bigger screen to next size up. May be 5.6" or even 5.8" as the original X.

layer8 2y ago
I don’t think there is space, because the production costs of a mini model aren’t substantially lower. Remember that when the 12 mini launched, its price was the same as the 11, and the regular 12 got $100 more expensive.
- ksec 2y ago
  The mini did exactly and precisely bump up the whole product range pricing. So the regular iPhone 12 got to $799 instead of $699. A 16e Mini will make the 16e product range starts at $499.
  - layer8 2y ago
    I just don’t think that a 16e mini at $499 would give Apple enough margin. The Face ID components are reportedly not cheap, OLED is also more expensive than LCD, they didn’t up the price to $599 just for fun.
    - ksec 2y ago
      OLED is not expensive and can be cheaper than LCD. There is nothing expensive about BOM in iPhone 16e. Face ID used in the current notch form is also not expensive. We are 7 years into FaceID component already. There are reason why Android could pay Qualcomm for SoC while still selling for $199. It is selling 16e at 14 price range with one camera less, which is actually a relatively expensive part in terms of BOM and extra GB of memory. Along with cost saving of its own modem, the $599 is there not to cannibalise sales on 16 which is the heavy margin product range.

bscphil 2y ago

It's especially disappointing to see that they killed off the SE with this release, as it was the previous inexpensive and smaller option. The screen alone on this new 16e is larger across the diagonal than the entire device on the SE 3rd edition, and the SE famously had the traditional huge bezel.

stefandesu 2y ago

Yes please. My new job just provided me with a new phone, but all the models are just too big. I guess I’ll get used to it, but I’d rather have the current features in a Mini body.

Coryodaniel 2y ago

Staying on my 13 mini until someone makes a dumb phone that doesn’t suck.

paulcole 2y ago

> Surely those phones didn’t sell so few that it’s not worth doing at all? That is literally what happened.

hooch 2y ago

With the C1 modem and in-house wifi/bluetooth, here's hoping that Apple is ready to revisit the mini-sized phone!

jbverschoor 2y ago

They stopped with the mini during COVID So many people are interested in which phone I have. It’s a 12mini. Won’t upgrade to 13mini bc that doesn’t make any sense. I simply don’t want a bulky phone.

quitit 2y ago

Even if they only do one every 4 years.

knubie 2y ago

I'm still using my iphone12 mini and still holding out that someone makes a similar sized phone. I would love to see a slightly thicker version to accommodate a larger batter and no camera bump, but at this point a small, thick phone seems almost unimaginable.