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> The basic story is that during the aughts, we had a bipartisan education reform consensus that was focused on improving school quality as an attainable and im

by cafard 2y ago

> The basic story is that during the aughts, we had a bipartisan education reform consensus that was focused on improving school quality as an attainable and important driver of social and economic progress. No Child Left Behind? It created tremendous incentives to teach to the test, and in some cases where that wasn't enough, to cheat to the test.

scarab92 2y ago
No Child Left Behind incentivised teaching to the level of the lowest denominator. That's a not just a problem in education. Lowest denominator thinking is endemic throughout America. Don’t be surprised if countries that seek excellence, like China, eventually have economic growth that outpaces America for this reason alone.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  Seeking excellence and demanding ideological conformity at the risk of prison don't seem compatible to me.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
    Are you talking about china or the US?
    - EA-3167 2y ago
      That doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the US is famously politically and ideologically divided. I understand the impulse to say "no, you" but we can do better than that here.
      - Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
        Point taken about the snark, but ideological conformity is a growing pressure everywhere, and the fact that it has two poles in the US doesn't lessen the negative effects on education.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  I think the other side is equally likely (if not already happening) in that countries seeking 'excellence' succumb to the manager's fallacy of using metrics to reward and punish, at which point Goodhart's law kicks in like it did for no child left behind. Are chinese students cheating on their exams because its only the score that matters, for example? The lowest denominator, lowering of standards, and grade inflation I believe are all symptoms of 'education' not being about learning and skill building, but about credentialization. If only the certificate matters anymore, then rest is just theatre.

by cafard 2y ago

scarab92 2y ago

No Child Left Behind incentivised teaching to the level of the lowest denominator. That's a not just a problem in education. Lowest denominator thinking is endemic throughout America. Don’t be surprised if countries that seek excellence, like China, eventually have economic growth that outpaces America for this reason alone.

EA-3167 2y ago
Seeking excellence and demanding ideological conformity at the risk of prison don't seem compatible to me.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  Are you talking about china or the US?
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    That doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the US is famously politically and ideologically divided. I understand the impulse to say "no, you" but we can do better than that here.
    - Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
      Point taken about the snark, but ideological conformity is a growing pressure everywhere, and the fact that it has two poles in the US doesn't lessen the negative effects on education.
Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
I think the other side is equally likely (if not already happening) in that countries seeking 'excellence' succumb to the manager's fallacy of using metrics to reward and punish, at which point Goodhart's law kicks in like it did for no child left behind. Are chinese students cheating on their exams because its only the score that matters, for example? The lowest denominator, lowering of standards, and grade inflation I believe are all symptoms of 'education' not being about learning and skill building, but about credentialization. If only the certificate matters anymore, then rest is just theatre.