5 ms·

Electric-truck maker Nikola files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

freedomben 2y ago
I'm frankly amazed they lasted this long given the shadiness and scandals. I've seen a lot of "fake it til you make it" in tech startup land, including lots of tall claims, but I don't think I've seen any case as bad as Nikola's founder (Trevor Milton). Dude straight up lied about the product, it's capabilities and it's current state, to include faking test results and using camera tricks to make videos of a truck driving as "proof" that it worked. One example, they were "driving" (actually rolling) down a hill but angled the camera so that the ground would look flat making it appear the truck was driving under its own power[1]. Pretty wild story. [1] From TFA: "In 2018, Milton posted a video on X that showed the truck seemingly cruise down a flat road. But it was all smoke and mirrors, prosecutors say. “In fact, to film these clips, the Nikola One was towed to the top of a hill, at which point the ‘driver’ released the brakes, and the truck rolled down the hill until being brought to a stop in front of the stop sign,” the Department of Justice wrote in the release Monday."
- kjrfghslkdjfl 2y ago
  [dead]
- sorokod 2y ago
  Theranos wasn't that long ago.
- LaundroMat 2y ago
  I'm amazed too because I had a genuine Mandela-effect moment here. I really thought they'd had gone bankrupt years ago.
- cynicalsecurity 2y ago
  This kind if behaviour is criminal.
- Veserv 2y ago
  I mean, it worked and is working for the other company named after Nikola Tesla, Tesla. Straight up lied about FSD, its capabilities and it's current state, to include faking test results as "proof" that it worked. One example, the "car is driving itself" in 2016, but they actually staged the video [1], the vehicle crashed at least once while gathering footage, and edited the footage [2], and were still unable to complete the claimed route to the standard advertised 7 years later [3]. Including objectively false claims [4] that it skipped a disabled spot because it "reads the signs" even though it still can not read signs and could not autonomously park as part of a route until around 2024. If a much bigger and higher profile company can make even more outrageous lies to pump their valuation to non-accredited investors and make their investor and CEO one of the richest people in the world, it should be no surprise that others follow suit. Outrageous lies are the path to riches. [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-self-driving-was-staged-engineer-testifies-2023-01-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-sel... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPgbDEVYOUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPgbDEVYOUQ [3] https://vimeo.com/863217478/9e527571f6 https://vimeo.com/863217478/9e527571f6 [4] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/789020841489018880 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/789020841489018880
Workaccount2 2y ago
The stock rallied almost 80% yesterday before crashing hard this morning. Fishy as hell for sure.
- baq 2y ago
  Stocks at this stage are priced as options and bonds are priced as stocks; given that, nothing to phone home about.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Sometimes it works (Hertz). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-05-12/money-stuff-the-hertz-gamblers-were-right https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-05-12/money-... | https://archive.today/5g0fa https://archive.today/5g0fa
- greyw 2y ago
  Shares of near-bankrupt companies have strong option-like characteristics, similar to out-of-the-money call options on the company's survival (because they are worth zero if debtors are not able to be paid off, nonzero otherwise). If you know the basics about how options are priced the wild swings shouldn't come as a surpise at all.
prescriptivist 2y ago
As an aside, I believe Nikola was at one time one of the more significant commercial users of the Crystal programming language. I wonder if they were/still major contributors to that ecosystem.
solfox 2y ago
Such a strange name choice for a startup - my mind completes the name, which evokes the name of their competitor.
- WJW 2y ago
  First of all Tesla is hardly a competitor. Tesla makes consumer vehicles while Nikola was targeteting the trucking business. But in any case being associated with (at the time) a highly successful brand for whom the trees seemed to grow into the heavens was probably a key goal when choosing the name. These days Tesla's brand is a bit tarnished, but the sky was the limit for it back in 2014 when Nikola was founded.
  - anamexis 2y ago
    Tesla is also targeting the trucking business. https://www.tesla.com/semi https://www.tesla.com/semi
ge96 2y ago
"...we have faced various market and macroeconomic factors that have impacted our ability to operate." (Tech Crunch quote) so funny "our boss went to jail"
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43103333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43103333
nimbius 2y ago
im a professional diesel mechanic for large trucks, and i have almost never heard of Nikola until now. A little canadian company I am pretty excited about is Edison. https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ Instead of futuristic cabs and touchscreen everything, Edison is making trucks that professional over-the-road drivers have used for decades and know like the back of their hand. this is i believe what people on HN call "boring" technology but trust me, you do not want excitement on a 1400 mile drive. Theyre also targeting some of the most brutal applications for trucking including offroad logging and snow removal.
- wyre 2y ago
  I would like to think HN readers know. It seems like every thread about modern vehicles people here wax on about how unsafe and terrible for the user modern car dashboards and controls are. It isn’t a long jump to go from understanding wanting physical controls in a commuter vehicle, to wanting physical controls in your vehicles that are driven full-time and require additional licensing. I’ve heard of Edison in the past (I think it was on TikTok a while ago), and they seemed like a very cool company. I didn’t realize they are also working on EV conversions for existing trucks. Very cool!

I'm frankly amazed they lasted this long given the shadiness and scandals. I've seen a lot of "fake it til you make it" in tech startup land, including lots of tall claims, but I don't think I've seen any case as bad as Nikola's founder (Trevor Milton). Dude straight up lied about the product, it's capabilities and it's current state, to include faking test results and using camera tricks to make videos of a truck driving as "proof" that it worked. One example, they were "driving" (actually rolling) down a hill but angled the camera so that the ground would look flat making it appear the truck was driving under its own power[1]. Pretty wild story. [1] From TFA: "In 2018, Milton posted a video on X that showed the truck seemingly cruise down a flat road. But it was all smoke and mirrors, prosecutors say. “In fact, to film these clips, the Nikola One was towed to the top of a hill, at which point the ‘driver’ released the brakes, and the truck rolled down the hill until being brought to a stop in front of the stop sign,” the Department of Justice wrote in the release Monday."

kjrfghslkdjfl 2y ago
[dead]
sorokod 2y ago
Theranos wasn't that long ago.
LaundroMat 2y ago
I'm amazed too because I had a genuine Mandela-effect moment here. I really thought they'd had gone bankrupt years ago.
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
This kind if behaviour is criminal.
Veserv 2y ago
I mean, it worked and is working for the other company named after Nikola Tesla, Tesla. Straight up lied about FSD, its capabilities and it's current state, to include faking test results as "proof" that it worked. One example, the "car is driving itself" in 2016, but they actually staged the video [1], the vehicle crashed at least once while gathering footage, and edited the footage [2], and were still unable to complete the claimed route to the standard advertised 7 years later [3]. Including objectively false claims [4] that it skipped a disabled spot because it "reads the signs" even though it still can not read signs and could not autonomously park as part of a route until around 2024. If a much bigger and higher profile company can make even more outrageous lies to pump their valuation to non-accredited investors and make their investor and CEO one of the richest people in the world, it should be no surprise that others follow suit. Outrageous lies are the path to riches. [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-self-driving-was-staged-engineer-testifies-2023-01-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-sel... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPgbDEVYOUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPgbDEVYOUQ [3] https://vimeo.com/863217478/9e527571f6 https://vimeo.com/863217478/9e527571f6 [4] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/789020841489018880 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/789020841489018880

Workaccount2 2y ago

The stock rallied almost 80% yesterday before crashing hard this morning. Fishy as hell for sure.

baq 2y ago
Stocks at this stage are priced as options and bonds are priced as stocks; given that, nothing to phone home about.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Sometimes it works (Hertz). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-05-12/money-stuff-the-hertz-gamblers-were-right https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-05-12/money-... | https://archive.today/5g0fa https://archive.today/5g0fa
greyw 2y ago
Shares of near-bankrupt companies have strong option-like characteristics, similar to out-of-the-money call options on the company's survival (because they are worth zero if debtors are not able to be paid off, nonzero otherwise). If you know the basics about how options are priced the wild swings shouldn't come as a surpise at all.

prescriptivist 2y ago

As an aside, I believe Nikola was at one time one of the more significant commercial users of the Crystal programming language. I wonder if they were/still major contributors to that ecosystem.

solfox 2y ago

Such a strange name choice for a startup - my mind completes the name, which evokes the name of their competitor.

WJW 2y ago
First of all Tesla is hardly a competitor. Tesla makes consumer vehicles while Nikola was targeteting the trucking business. But in any case being associated with (at the time) a highly successful brand for whom the trees seemed to grow into the heavens was probably a key goal when choosing the name. These days Tesla's brand is a bit tarnished, but the sky was the limit for it back in 2014 when Nikola was founded.
- anamexis 2y ago
  Tesla is also targeting the trucking business. https://www.tesla.com/semi https://www.tesla.com/semi

ge96 2y ago

"...we have faced various market and macroeconomic factors that have impacted our ability to operate." (Tech Crunch quote) so funny "our boss went to jail"

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43103333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43103333

nimbius 2y ago

im a professional diesel mechanic for large trucks, and i have almost never heard of Nikola until now. A little canadian company I am pretty excited about is Edison. https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ Instead of futuristic cabs and touchscreen everything, Edison is making trucks that professional over-the-road drivers have used for decades and know like the back of their hand. this is i believe what people on HN call "boring" technology but trust me, you do not want excitement on a 1400 mile drive. Theyre also targeting some of the most brutal applications for trucking including offroad logging and snow removal.

wyre 2y ago
I would like to think HN readers know. It seems like every thread about modern vehicles people here wax on about how unsafe and terrible for the user modern car dashboards and controls are. It isn’t a long jump to go from understanding wanting physical controls in a commuter vehicle, to wanting physical controls in your vehicles that are driven full-time and require additional licensing. I’ve heard of Edison in the past (I think it was on TikTok a while ago), and they seemed like a very cool company. I didn’t realize they are also working on EV conversions for existing trucks. Very cool!