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Thank you for your comment. Overall, this lifted me up and helped me learn some more about what was in the Declaration. (I went and read it for the first time a

by zeven7 2y ago

Thank you for your comment. Overall, this lifted me up and helped me learn some more about what was in the Declaration. (I went and read it for the first time after seeing your comment.) > deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed Unfortunately, unlike 1776, today's king was given power by the governed, and the majority (of those who care enough to vote) still support him. So I don't know where those of us who are horrified go from here.

Ancapistani 2y ago
With absolutely no malice intended: you step back a bit, lick your wounds, and try to figure out why your message and candidate failed - just like the GOP did for the past four years. Four years feels like a long time when it has just started; it isn’t so long at all in hindsight. Moreover, you have two years before the next opportunity you have to disempower Trump (midterm elections). The campaigns for those start in a year or so, so if you’re going to cripple Trump by taking back Congress now is the time to be introspective. The electorate is not irreconcilable, but change doesn’t happen when you double down on the same course.
- zeven7 2y ago
  Thank you for a non-malicious response, but (also respectfully) I am not a Democrat, and your response seemed to me more geared toward answering "How can I deal with policy changes that I disagree with?" I am more concerned about the potential for the complete capitulation of American democracy to totalitarianism than any particular platform issues. What's happening right now is only a small part standard disagreements between parties (the GOP banning trans athletes, rebalancing the budget, approaching foreign relations differently) and much more about half the country being entranced by a cult of personality while the leaders in a position to stop a president from becoming a king instead are bowing down to him. > try to figure out why your message and candidate failed I don't like Harris' message. I probably disagree with her on a majority of political debate topics. I am a centrist and would agree with her on some things, but I would have considered myself a right leaning centrist more than a left leaning centrist. Her message failed for me too. I am just dismayed that the country elected _this_ man. A convicted felon who has provably lied more than any other person on record in the history of humanity, who already tried to overthrow an election, is only self interested, a bully, a sexual assaulter, a conman, a swindler: _this_ man? And now he's doing what you knew he would do, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it. I don't want to know how to get Kamala 2.0 to win an election. I want to know how to get back to Bush v. Gore.
  - Ancapistani 2y ago
    > I am not a Democrat, and your response seemed to me more geared toward answering "How can I deal with policy changes that I disagree with?" Yep, 100%. My biases are showing :) > I am more concerned about the potential for the complete capitulation of American democracy to totalitarianism than any particular platform issues. What's happening right now is only a small part standard disagreements between parties (the GOP banning trans athletes, rebalancing the budget, approaching foreign relations differently) and much more about half the country being entranced by a cult of personality while the leaders in a position to stop a president from becoming a king instead are bowing down to him. Yes, I’m concerned about the risks I’m seeing too. Where I’m really struggling is in trying to connect that emotion to facts. So far, every headline, article, and statement I’ve seen has turned out to be somewhere between “misleading” and “outright malicious falsehood” upon closer inspection. Still, I read and give each one a fair chance to change my mind. The accusations being made are so extreme it would be wrong for me not to. What really concerns me is that this extreme partisan rhetoric would make it much easier for Trump or someone near him to actually take control. When people have seen months and months of these sorts of assertions being made, only to investigate them and discover that isn’t what was happening at all… at some point, people are going to stop listening. That’s when things get really dangerous IMO. My biggest fear with this administration is that they’ll actually do the things they’re being accused of, I’ll see it for what it is, and I won’t be able to get anyone to listen to me because of “outrage fatigue”. ETA: a second response is coming for the last section :)
    - zeven7 2y ago
      I get it. I think your fears are warranted. I appreciate your response.
    - unethical_ban 2y ago
      I agree in the principle that extraordinary claims must be backed by fact and evidence. I disagree that there is an excess of hyperbole going on. I truly believe that Trump/Musk/Vance and the unitary-executive/techbro-cult, if they are not soon stopped in their tracks, will have subverted American political and economic power for generations. Europe and Canada and the world can no longer trust the United States as a long-term partner. This isn't about subtle pivots and diplomacy. This is betrayal of values on our closest political, military and economic allies. He is actively destroying the apolitical civil service and trying to gut the pipeline of young, skilled workers into federal government. The only motive for the actions they are taking are to destroy our government. I would not be shocked to hear reports in the coming months of military officers being asked who they voted for in 2024. He is claiming (and trying to exert!) levels of executive power that generations of Americans were taught by Nixon were forbidden. “He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.” "If the will of the president is not implemented and the president is representative of the people, that means the will of the people is not being implemented and that means we don't live in a democracy, we live in a bureaucracy.” These quotes should frighten every American.
- intended 2y ago
  It’s not a candidate issue, when the media and messaging doesn’t get to the other voters. If a scientist going up against a fraud, and the fraud wins the debate, then it’s not a debate. This is what happened back when experts went to Fox and talked about climate change in the 90s. They were simply obliterated. Even if a point was made, it would be killed and something else floated during the evening shows. Because it’s not a debate. It’s not about truth, or democracy. Trump dodged every debate after Harris came on the scene. He was not humiliated for this. One team wants to win. The other team wants a functioning nation. The electorate is functionally irreconcilable if the message never gets to them, and their party punishes bipartisan behavior. And this is not what america was set up to survive. It was assumed that people would reach across the aisle. Even if you win the next election. The ground work for Trump 3.0 and beyond remains. People need to look at Fox News, and develop ways to get past their censorship and message curation.

by zeven7 2y ago

Ancapistani 2y ago

With absolutely no malice intended: you step back a bit, lick your wounds, and try to figure out why your message and candidate failed - just like the GOP did for the past four years. Four years feels like a long time when it has just started; it isn’t so long at all in hindsight. Moreover, you have two years before the next opportunity you have to disempower Trump (midterm elections). The campaigns for those start in a year or so, so if you’re going to cripple Trump by taking back Congress now is the time to be introspective. The electorate is not irreconcilable, but change doesn’t happen when you double down on the same course.

zeven7 2y ago
Thank you for a non-malicious response, but (also respectfully) I am not a Democrat, and your response seemed to me more geared toward answering "How can I deal with policy changes that I disagree with?" I am more concerned about the potential for the complete capitulation of American democracy to totalitarianism than any particular platform issues. What's happening right now is only a small part standard disagreements between parties (the GOP banning trans athletes, rebalancing the budget, approaching foreign relations differently) and much more about half the country being entranced by a cult of personality while the leaders in a position to stop a president from becoming a king instead are bowing down to him. > try to figure out why your message and candidate failed I don't like Harris' message. I probably disagree with her on a majority of political debate topics. I am a centrist and would agree with her on some things, but I would have considered myself a right leaning centrist more than a left leaning centrist. Her message failed for me too. I am just dismayed that the country elected _this_ man. A convicted felon who has provably lied more than any other person on record in the history of humanity, who already tried to overthrow an election, is only self interested, a bully, a sexual assaulter, a conman, a swindler: _this_ man? And now he's doing what you knew he would do, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it. I don't want to know how to get Kamala 2.0 to win an election. I want to know how to get back to Bush v. Gore.
- Ancapistani 2y ago
  > I am not a Democrat, and your response seemed to me more geared toward answering "How can I deal with policy changes that I disagree with?" Yep, 100%. My biases are showing :) > I am more concerned about the potential for the complete capitulation of American democracy to totalitarianism than any particular platform issues. What's happening right now is only a small part standard disagreements between parties (the GOP banning trans athletes, rebalancing the budget, approaching foreign relations differently) and much more about half the country being entranced by a cult of personality while the leaders in a position to stop a president from becoming a king instead are bowing down to him. Yes, I’m concerned about the risks I’m seeing too. Where I’m really struggling is in trying to connect that emotion to facts. So far, every headline, article, and statement I’ve seen has turned out to be somewhere between “misleading” and “outright malicious falsehood” upon closer inspection. Still, I read and give each one a fair chance to change my mind. The accusations being made are so extreme it would be wrong for me not to. What really concerns me is that this extreme partisan rhetoric would make it much easier for Trump or someone near him to actually take control. When people have seen months and months of these sorts of assertions being made, only to investigate them and discover that isn’t what was happening at all… at some point, people are going to stop listening. That’s when things get really dangerous IMO. My biggest fear with this administration is that they’ll actually do the things they’re being accused of, I’ll see it for what it is, and I won’t be able to get anyone to listen to me because of “outrage fatigue”. ETA: a second response is coming for the last section :)
  - zeven7 2y ago
    I get it. I think your fears are warranted. I appreciate your response.
  - unethical_ban 2y ago
    I agree in the principle that extraordinary claims must be backed by fact and evidence. I disagree that there is an excess of hyperbole going on. I truly believe that Trump/Musk/Vance and the unitary-executive/techbro-cult, if they are not soon stopped in their tracks, will have subverted American political and economic power for generations. Europe and Canada and the world can no longer trust the United States as a long-term partner. This isn't about subtle pivots and diplomacy. This is betrayal of values on our closest political, military and economic allies. He is actively destroying the apolitical civil service and trying to gut the pipeline of young, skilled workers into federal government. The only motive for the actions they are taking are to destroy our government. I would not be shocked to hear reports in the coming months of military officers being asked who they voted for in 2024. He is claiming (and trying to exert!) levels of executive power that generations of Americans were taught by Nixon were forbidden. “He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.” "If the will of the president is not implemented and the president is representative of the people, that means the will of the people is not being implemented and that means we don't live in a democracy, we live in a bureaucracy.” These quotes should frighten every American.
intended 2y ago
It’s not a candidate issue, when the media and messaging doesn’t get to the other voters. If a scientist going up against a fraud, and the fraud wins the debate, then it’s not a debate. This is what happened back when experts went to Fox and talked about climate change in the 90s. They were simply obliterated. Even if a point was made, it would be killed and something else floated during the evening shows. Because it’s not a debate. It’s not about truth, or democracy. Trump dodged every debate after Harris came on the scene. He was not humiliated for this. One team wants to win. The other team wants a functioning nation. The electorate is functionally irreconcilable if the message never gets to them, and their party punishes bipartisan behavior. And this is not what america was set up to survive. It was assumed that people would reach across the aisle. Even if you win the next election. The ground work for Trump 3.0 and beyond remains. People need to look at Fox News, and develop ways to get past their censorship and message curation.