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The languages aren't, strictly speaking, so much the problem as are the massive frameworks configured via distant files with lots of DI and reflection magic inv

The languages aren't, strictly speaking, so much the problem as are the massive frameworks configured via distant files with lots of DI and reflection magic involved. Go has some large frameworks, but the community frequently suggests they aren't needed and that the standard library is enough.

demi56 2y ago
So the community influences the language, not the language that influence the community that explains everything
- rob74 2y ago
  Well, it's a bit of both. Java is of course very influential, and because it uses a framework for web applications, many languages/communities started imitating that (Ruby/Rails, PHP/Laravel, JS/[Framework_of_the_day] etc.). Then Go came along with its back-to-basics approach and its standard library which is "batteries included" but definitely not a framework, and for some this is a breath of fresh air, while for others it's apparently unbearably alien and backwards...
  - gf000 2y ago
    I'm fairly sure that most of these frameworks are not direct imitations of what Java did, and there was a back-and-fort co-evolution where standard CRUD web applications can be written in a very very productive way (for the small price of learning a framework). Sure, reinventing the wheel is fun, but if I can finish a whole project while the equivalent go code can finally return "Hello world", then I'm not sure it's a worthwhile tradeoff. Java is not anemic when it comes to its standard library, people moved to frameworks because a good deal of CRUD apps have to solve some of the same problems. Don't forget, the only silver bullet is reusing existing code.
  - demi56 2y ago
    I would say the leaders(could be the creators) of the language plays the most important role in its infancy the decisions they make defines what decisions the community are gonna make and the was what Go made right, Java been a business oriented decisions made by the community will also be business oriented
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Exactly; if you ask about for example a test assertion or mocking library like in Java, you get told to not use it. These libraries often add a DSL of sorts, meaning you have to relearn them. Granted, Go's testing library / setup is also a bit of a jump from regular Go code (especially things like table tests). But the assertions are just `if`s.

demi56 2y ago

So the community influences the language, not the language that influence the community that explains everything

rob74 2y ago
Well, it's a bit of both. Java is of course very influential, and because it uses a framework for web applications, many languages/communities started imitating that (Ruby/Rails, PHP/Laravel, JS/[Framework_of_the_day] etc.). Then Go came along with its back-to-basics approach and its standard library which is "batteries included" but definitely not a framework, and for some this is a breath of fresh air, while for others it's apparently unbearably alien and backwards...
- gf000 2y ago
  I'm fairly sure that most of these frameworks are not direct imitations of what Java did, and there was a back-and-fort co-evolution where standard CRUD web applications can be written in a very very productive way (for the small price of learning a framework). Sure, reinventing the wheel is fun, but if I can finish a whole project while the equivalent go code can finally return "Hello world", then I'm not sure it's a worthwhile tradeoff. Java is not anemic when it comes to its standard library, people moved to frameworks because a good deal of CRUD apps have to solve some of the same problems. Don't forget, the only silver bullet is reusing existing code.
- demi56 2y ago
  I would say the leaders(could be the creators) of the language plays the most important role in its infancy the decisions they make defines what decisions the community are gonna make and the was what Go made right, Java been a business oriented decisions made by the community will also be business oriented

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

Exactly; if you ask about for example a test assertion or mocking library like in Java, you get told to not use it. These libraries often add a DSL of sorts, meaning you have to relearn them. Granted, Go's testing library / setup is also a bit of a jump from regular Go code (especially things like table tests). But the assertions are just `if`s.