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Government (local, federal, state) spending as a percentage of GDP is 34% and as a total amount is 6.75 trillion. According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.or

by alaxhn 2y ago

Government (local, federal, state) spending as a percentage of GDP is 34% and as a total amount is 6.75 trillion. According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_num... there are ~756 billionaires in the US (interestingly the state-like region with the highest amount of billionaires per capita is Washington DC). The total wealth of these billionaires is ~6.72 trillion. I don't think there is a reliable estimate of billionaire spending so I will use 5% of assets for what I consider a high estimate which yields 336 billion. In reality I would guess that these people are far too greedy to spend enough money that they risk depleting their assets over time. So to be clear, you think that control over ~336 billion (or feel free to provide a better estimate?) in spending is the "the lion share of the economy" and that we should not take a hard look at the 6.75 trillion in spending by an organization that includes the pentagon and is famous for funding forever wars in the middle east? Those of us siding with the billionaires here (really just two that you have identified, not all of them - others such as Gates are clearly on the other side of this issue) recognize that there are people earning a living wage from the current status quo but we believe that the country would better be served by having these individuals earn a living wage in a more productive endeavor than what we see as staffing an unproductive and oversized bureaucracy.

voidhorse 2y ago
Are we going to ignore the fact that part of that government spending funded private companies owned by Musk? Wealth inequality in America is worse than any of its peer nations and has only been getting worse since the 80s (see Pew research on this). Americans on the ground feel this more than they feel the effects of bloated government spending that funds, well you know, stuff that's supposed to be in the public interest (like social security and other programs). Are we further going to ignore that all the cuts they have made so far are on things that are not even a fraction of that spending and that the billions of taxpayer dollars funding Tesla will likely go untouched while actual people trying to make a living lose their jobs? I agree that the military apparatus is a massive problem but I fully expect spending in that area to stay roughly the same. I think all that will happen there is a swap in who is getting the contracts. I'm not going to pretend I can't be wrong on this and sure some cuts may well be good, but you have to be extremely out of touch with reality and its consequences for real people if you think this is the right way to do it. The only people cool with this are prepubescents and immature adults who seem to think that life is like a video game full of NPCs and not of people who live actual meaningful lives like themselves.
- alaxhn 2y ago
  "Are we going to ignore the fact that part of that government spending funded private companies owned by Musk?" Elon musk has received ~$18 billion over a decade. In exchange he gave us the first broad market electric cars and reusable rockets which were lucrative outside of the public sector. While I have broad concerns about the money going in the pockets of the wealthy from government spending, this doesn't strike me as bad ROI. Just looking at the dollars and cents, the income/capital gains taxes paid by tesla/spacex workers+management over the last decade is almost certainly a substantially larger figure (I think Elon himself paid $11 billion in one year?) so the net "funding" of this "investment" from the government is a negative figure and this contributed to the balance sheet rather than subtracted from it. While I may agree with you about certain problems we are seeing (e.g. wealth inequality), I think we disagree on the causes and solutions. I primarily blame government and would cite specifics such as 1 a slow down in housing construction that I blame on regulatory change (leading to large price gains which benefit established home owners) and 2 spending on bureaucracy that I view as generally going to well off people 3 skyrocketing cost of education which I generally blame on universities being enabled by incentives often from the government to act like a business and not a public good 4 increased cost of medical care which I generally view as a collection of market failings also caused by (in my view) bad policy (e.g. doctors are protected from immigrants taking their jobs due to the medical credentials not often being able to cross borders) 5 worse demographics (aging population requires more medical care and produces fewer workers). I believe you generally blame billionaires or the "very rich" who you feel are capturing a large share of the economy and I would be curious for you to lay out your case for this. "You have to be extremely out of touch with reality and its consequences for real people if you think this is the right way to do it. The only people cool with this are prepubescents and immature adults who seem to think that life is like a video game full of NPCs and not of people who live actual meaningful lives like themselves." I will acknowledge that often cuts are painful, chaotic, and impact real people. The nature of management for large organizations and in this case an enforced tight timeline due to political terms in my view make this inevitable and I am hopeful that there are long term positive outcomes that make the short term pain worthwhile. I don't think this makes me a prepubescent or immature adult and I don't view you or other people in life as an NPC. To be honest I view you as someone who is likely smart living a full life and who can probably be convinced with facts/figures along with a rational argument (although I will acknowledge that this takes time and happens over years / decades and not in a short conversation :D).

by alaxhn 2y ago

voidhorse 2y ago

Are we going to ignore the fact that part of that government spending funded private companies owned by Musk? Wealth inequality in America is worse than any of its peer nations and has only been getting worse since the 80s (see Pew research on this). Americans on the ground feel this more than they feel the effects of bloated government spending that funds, well you know, stuff that's supposed to be in the public interest (like social security and other programs). Are we further going to ignore that all the cuts they have made so far are on things that are not even a fraction of that spending and that the billions of taxpayer dollars funding Tesla will likely go untouched while actual people trying to make a living lose their jobs? I agree that the military apparatus is a massive problem but I fully expect spending in that area to stay roughly the same. I think all that will happen there is a swap in who is getting the contracts. I'm not going to pretend I can't be wrong on this and sure some cuts may well be good, but you have to be extremely out of touch with reality and its consequences for real people if you think this is the right way to do it. The only people cool with this are prepubescents and immature adults who seem to think that life is like a video game full of NPCs and not of people who live actual meaningful lives like themselves.

alaxhn 2y ago
"Are we going to ignore the fact that part of that government spending funded private companies owned by Musk?" Elon musk has received ~$18 billion over a decade. In exchange he gave us the first broad market electric cars and reusable rockets which were lucrative outside of the public sector. While I have broad concerns about the money going in the pockets of the wealthy from government spending, this doesn't strike me as bad ROI. Just looking at the dollars and cents, the income/capital gains taxes paid by tesla/spacex workers+management over the last decade is almost certainly a substantially larger figure (I think Elon himself paid $11 billion in one year?) so the net "funding" of this "investment" from the government is a negative figure and this contributed to the balance sheet rather than subtracted from it. While I may agree with you about certain problems we are seeing (e.g. wealth inequality), I think we disagree on the causes and solutions. I primarily blame government and would cite specifics such as 1 a slow down in housing construction that I blame on regulatory change (leading to large price gains which benefit established home owners) and 2 spending on bureaucracy that I view as generally going to well off people 3 skyrocketing cost of education which I generally blame on universities being enabled by incentives often from the government to act like a business and not a public good 4 increased cost of medical care which I generally view as a collection of market failings also caused by (in my view) bad policy (e.g. doctors are protected from immigrants taking their jobs due to the medical credentials not often being able to cross borders) 5 worse demographics (aging population requires more medical care and produces fewer workers). I believe you generally blame billionaires or the "very rich" who you feel are capturing a large share of the economy and I would be curious for you to lay out your case for this. "You have to be extremely out of touch with reality and its consequences for real people if you think this is the right way to do it. The only people cool with this are prepubescents and immature adults who seem to think that life is like a video game full of NPCs and not of people who live actual meaningful lives like themselves." I will acknowledge that often cuts are painful, chaotic, and impact real people. The nature of management for large organizations and in this case an enforced tight timeline due to political terms in my view make this inevitable and I am hopeful that there are long term positive outcomes that make the short term pain worthwhile. I don't think this makes me a prepubescent or immature adult and I don't view you or other people in life as an NPC. To be honest I view you as someone who is likely smart living a full life and who can probably be convinced with facts/figures along with a rational argument (although I will acknowledge that this takes time and happens over years / decades and not in a short conversation :D).