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Since this seems to be a love fest let me offer a contrarian view. I use conda for environment management and pip for package management. This neatly separates

Since this seems to be a love fest let me offer a contrarian view. I use conda for environment management and pip for package management. This neatly separates the concerns into two tools that are good at what they do. I'm afraid that uv is another round of "Let's fix everything" just to create another soon to be dead set of patterns. I find nothing innovative or pleasing in its design, nor do I feel that it is particularly intuitive or usable. You don't have to love uv, and there are plenty of reasons not to.

data_ders 2y ago
conda user for 10 years and uv skeptic for 18 months. I get it! I loved my long-lived curated conda envs. I finally tried uv to manage an environment and it’s got me hooked. That a projects dependencies can be so declarative and separated from the venv really sings for me! No more meticulous tracking of a env.yml or requirements.txt just ‘uv add` and `uv sync` and that’s it! I just don’t think about it anymore
- synparb 2y ago
  I'm also a long time conda user and have recently switched to pixi (https://pixi.sh/ https://pixi.sh/), which gives a very similar experience for conda packages (and uses uv under the hood if you want to mix dependencies from pypi). It's been great and also has a `pixi global` similar to `pipx`, etc the makes it easy to grab general tools like ripgrep, ruff etc and make them widely available, but still managed.
  - data_ders 2y ago
    whoa! TIL thanks will check it out
falcor84 2y ago
> I find nothing innovative or pleasing in its design, nor do I feel that it is particularly intuitive or usable. TFA offers a myriad innovative and pleasing examples. It would have been nice if you actually commented on any of those, or otherwise explained why you think otherwise.
wiseowise 2y ago
> soon to be dead set of patterns. Dozens of threads of people praising how performant and easy uv is, how it builds on standards and current tooling instead of inventing new incompatible set of crap, and every time one comment pops up with “akshually my mix of conda, pyenv, pipx, poetry can already do that in record time of 5 minutes, why do you need uv? Its going to be dead soon”.
- noodletheworld 2y ago
  So what? If someone doesn’t want to use it, or doesn’t like it, or is, quite reasonably skeptical that “this time it’ll be different!” … let them be. If it’s good, it’ll stand on its own despite the criticism. If it can’t survive with some people disliking and criticising it is, it deserves to die. Right? Live and let live. We don’t have to all agree all the time about everything. uv is great. So use it if you want to. And if you don’t, that’s okay too.
  - hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
    Naive take. https://gwern.net/holy-war https://gwern.net/holy-war counsels that, in fact, becoming the One True Package Manager for a very popular programming language is an extremely valuable thing to aim towards. This is even outside of the fact that `uv` is backed by a profit-seeking company (cf https://astral.sh/about https://astral.sh/about). I'm all for people choosing what works best for them, but I'm also staunchly pro-arguing over it.
    - noodletheworld 2y ago
      > becoming the One True Package Manager for a very popular programming language is an extremely valuable thing For companies. Which is why when random people start acting like it’s important, you have to wonder why it’s important to them. For example, being a corporate shill. Or so deep in coolaid you can’t allow alternative opinions? Hm? It’s called an echo chamber.
      - famouswaffles 2y ago
EdwardDiego 2y ago
Yeah, I don't want my build tool to manage my Python, and I don't want my tool that installs Pythons to manage my builds. In JVM land I used Sdkman to manage JVMs, and I used Maven or Gradle to manage builds. I don't want them both tied to one tool, because that's inflexible.
- Philpax 2y ago
  What does the additional flexibility get you? It's just one less thing to worry about when coordinating with a team, and it's easy to shift between different versions for a project if need be.
zahlman 2y ago
Pip installs packages, but it provides rather limited functionality for actually managing what it installed. It won't directly spit out a dependency graph, won't help you figure out which of the packages installed in the current environment are actually needed for the current project, leaves any kind of locking up to you... I agree that uv is the N+1th competing standard for a workflow tool, and I don't like workflow tools anyway, preferring to do my own integration. But the installer it provides does solve a lot of real problems that Pip has.

data_ders 2y ago

conda user for 10 years and uv skeptic for 18 months. I get it! I loved my long-lived curated conda envs. I finally tried uv to manage an environment and it’s got me hooked. That a projects dependencies can be so declarative and separated from the venv really sings for me! No more meticulous tracking of a env.yml or requirements.txt just ‘uv add` and `uv sync` and that’s it! I just don’t think about it anymore

synparb 2y ago
I'm also a long time conda user and have recently switched to pixi (https://pixi.sh/ https://pixi.sh/), which gives a very similar experience for conda packages (and uses uv under the hood if you want to mix dependencies from pypi). It's been great and also has a `pixi global` similar to `pipx`, etc the makes it easy to grab general tools like ripgrep, ruff etc and make them widely available, but still managed.
- data_ders 2y ago
  whoa! TIL thanks will check it out

falcor84 2y ago

> I find nothing innovative or pleasing in its design, nor do I feel that it is particularly intuitive or usable. TFA offers a myriad innovative and pleasing examples. It would have been nice if you actually commented on any of those, or otherwise explained why you think otherwise.

wiseowise 2y ago

> soon to be dead set of patterns. Dozens of threads of people praising how performant and easy uv is, how it builds on standards and current tooling instead of inventing new incompatible set of crap, and every time one comment pops up with “akshually my mix of conda, pyenv, pipx, poetry can already do that in record time of 5 minutes, why do you need uv? Its going to be dead soon”.

noodletheworld 2y ago
So what? If someone doesn’t want to use it, or doesn’t like it, or is, quite reasonably skeptical that “this time it’ll be different!” … let them be. If it’s good, it’ll stand on its own despite the criticism. If it can’t survive with some people disliking and criticising it is, it deserves to die. Right? Live and let live. We don’t have to all agree all the time about everything. uv is great. So use it if you want to. And if you don’t, that’s okay too.
- hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
  Naive take. https://gwern.net/holy-war https://gwern.net/holy-war counsels that, in fact, becoming the One True Package Manager for a very popular programming language is an extremely valuable thing to aim towards. This is even outside of the fact that `uv` is backed by a profit-seeking company (cf https://astral.sh/about https://astral.sh/about). I'm all for people choosing what works best for them, but I'm also staunchly pro-arguing over it.
  - noodletheworld 2y ago
    > becoming the One True Package Manager for a very popular programming language is an extremely valuable thing For companies. Which is why when random people start acting like it’s important, you have to wonder why it’s important to them. For example, being a corporate shill. Or so deep in coolaid you can’t allow alternative opinions? Hm? It’s called an echo chamber.
    - famouswaffles 2y ago

EdwardDiego 2y ago

Yeah, I don't want my build tool to manage my Python, and I don't want my tool that installs Pythons to manage my builds. In JVM land I used Sdkman to manage JVMs, and I used Maven or Gradle to manage builds. I don't want them both tied to one tool, because that's inflexible.

Philpax 2y ago
What does the additional flexibility get you? It's just one less thing to worry about when coordinating with a team, and it's easy to shift between different versions for a project if need be.

zahlman 2y ago

Pip installs packages, but it provides rather limited functionality for actually managing what it installed. It won't directly spit out a dependency graph, won't help you figure out which of the packages installed in the current environment are actually needed for the current project, leaves any kind of locking up to you... I agree that uv is the N+1th competing standard for a workflow tool, and I don't like workflow tools anyway, preferring to do my own integration. But the installer it provides does solve a lot of real problems that Pip has.