4 ms·

I'm pretty fond of Java; it's definitely a superior language to Go if you ask me, which I've also written a ton of code in. But I stay away from Spring Boot, e

by codr7 2y ago

I'm pretty fond of Java; it's definitely a superior language to Go if you ask me, which I've also written a ton of code in. But I stay away from Spring Boot, end the entire EE stack of crap that came before it, if at all possible. I've had more success adding whatever I need on top of embedded Jetty. It's mostly a cultural problem, no one is forcing you to go the AdapterFacadeInjectionBuilderWhatever way. I've been working on a library to simplify interfacing with relational databases for a while now. With several implementations in Go and other languages. And the java version looks at least as nice as the rest to my eyes: https://github.com/codr7/tyred-java https://github.com/codr7/tyred-java

38 2y ago
[flagged]
- codr7 2y ago
  I could tell you why, based on writing a ton of code in both, but I doubt that would lead anywhere.
  - 38 2y ago
    https://github.com/codr7/tyred-java/tree/main/src/codr7/tyred https://github.com/codr7/tyred-java/tree/main/src/codr7/tyre... 24 of those files are under 100 lines - some of them are as small as three lines of code. and that's not a personal preference - that's mandated by Java that each type needs to be in its own file, ridiculous.
    - codr7 2y ago
      I don't see that as a problem at all, just like I don't see header files in C++ as a major problem, there are benefits as well and Java has the best IDEs of any language I've worked in except maybe SmallTalk.
      - 38 2y ago
        Java has the best IDEs, because as a language development is essentially impossible without one. contrast with Go where I can put as many types into one file as I like, and I can (and do) use Go without an IDE, both personally and professionally
        gf000 2y ago
        What part of Java development is impossible without an IDE? It's a stupidly simple language. Just because people actually use it and thus IDEs were developed to aid the development process doesn't make it a necessity at all. I have programmed Java countless times from vim without any plugins. The only pain point is imports, which would be similarly painful in any other language ever created.
      - johnisgood 2y ago
        Let me know when you can work on a medium-sized Java codebase in Emacs or Vim smoothly.
        codr7 2y ago
        I more or less live in Emacs, but I wouldn't use it for drawing pictures or writing SmallTalk either. The right tool for the job.
        johnisgood 2y ago
        I can use Emacs and Vim for pretty much everything, definitely not Java or JVM-like languages.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      > that's mandated by Java that each type needs to be in its own file, ridiculous. Nested classes?
    - galkk 2y ago
      > mandated by Java that each type needs to be in its own file, ridiculous. Each public type, but in general I agree, this is ridiculous decision.
evantbyrne 2y ago
I've written ORMs for both Java and Go and agree that Java is a wonderful language with a much more complete type system than Go. However, it feels like Java web development teams typically suffer from not having their own Wagtail/Payload/etc and build way too much from scratch. Maybe there is some great open source framework+CMS out there making waves in Java land that I'm unaware of?
- brabel 2y ago
  But Javas has so many of these web frameworks?! * Spring (https://spring.io/ https://spring.io/) * Spring Boot (https://spring.io/projects/spring-boot https://spring.io/projects/spring-boot) * Helidon (https://helidon.io/ https://helidon.io/) * Micronaut (https://micronaut.io/ https://micronaut.io/) * Quarkus (https://quarkus.io/ https://quarkus.io/) * JHipster (https://www.jhipster.tech/ https://www.jhipster.tech/) * Vaadin (https://vaadin.com/ https://vaadin.com/) That's just to mention the bigger ones, there's lots of mini frameworks like Javalin (https://javalin.io/ https://javalin.io/) and Dropwizard (https://www.dropwizard.io/en/stable/ https://www.dropwizard.io/en/stable/)... There's even the previous generation of big app servers like Weblogic and JBoss. It's just incredibly weird for me to see someone say Java is missing some sort of framework, it just has EVERY kind you can probably imagine.
  - evantbyrne 2y ago
    Framework _and_ CMS so most of these don't seem to apply. I haven't seen Vaadin before so that's interesting. JHipster seems like the closest to the ones I mentioned but the UI looks unpolished in the overview video.

by codr7 2y ago

38 2y ago

[flagged]

codr7 2y ago
I could tell you why, based on writing a ton of code in both, but I doubt that would lead anywhere.
- 38 2y ago
  https://github.com/codr7/tyred-java/tree/main/src/codr7/tyred https://github.com/codr7/tyred-java/tree/main/src/codr7/tyre... 24 of those files are under 100 lines - some of them are as small as three lines of code. and that's not a personal preference - that's mandated by Java that each type needs to be in its own file, ridiculous.
  - codr7 2y ago
    I don't see that as a problem at all, just like I don't see header files in C++ as a major problem, there are benefits as well and Java has the best IDEs of any language I've worked in except maybe SmallTalk.
    - 38 2y ago
      Java has the best IDEs, because as a language development is essentially impossible without one. contrast with Go where I can put as many types into one file as I like, and I can (and do) use Go without an IDE, both personally and professionally
      - gf000 2y ago
        What part of Java development is impossible without an IDE? It's a stupidly simple language. Just because people actually use it and thus IDEs were developed to aid the development process doesn't make it a necessity at all. I have programmed Java countless times from vim without any plugins. The only pain point is imports, which would be similarly painful in any other language ever created.
    - johnisgood 2y ago
      Let me know when you can work on a medium-sized Java codebase in Emacs or Vim smoothly.
      - codr7 2y ago
        I more or less live in Emacs, but I wouldn't use it for drawing pictures or writing SmallTalk either. The right tool for the job.
        johnisgood 2y ago
        I can use Emacs and Vim for pretty much everything, definitely not Java or JVM-like languages.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    > that's mandated by Java that each type needs to be in its own file, ridiculous. Nested classes?
  - galkk 2y ago
    > mandated by Java that each type needs to be in its own file, ridiculous. Each public type, but in general I agree, this is ridiculous decision.

evantbyrne 2y ago

I've written ORMs for both Java and Go and agree that Java is a wonderful language with a much more complete type system than Go. However, it feels like Java web development teams typically suffer from not having their own Wagtail/Payload/etc and build way too much from scratch. Maybe there is some great open source framework+CMS out there making waves in Java land that I'm unaware of?

brabel 2y ago
But Javas has so many of these web frameworks?! * Spring (https://spring.io/ https://spring.io/) * Spring Boot (https://spring.io/projects/spring-boot https://spring.io/projects/spring-boot) * Helidon (https://helidon.io/ https://helidon.io/) * Micronaut (https://micronaut.io/ https://micronaut.io/) * Quarkus (https://quarkus.io/ https://quarkus.io/) * JHipster (https://www.jhipster.tech/ https://www.jhipster.tech/) * Vaadin (https://vaadin.com/ https://vaadin.com/) That's just to mention the bigger ones, there's lots of mini frameworks like Javalin (https://javalin.io/ https://javalin.io/) and Dropwizard (https://www.dropwizard.io/en/stable/ https://www.dropwizard.io/en/stable/)... There's even the previous generation of big app servers like Weblogic and JBoss. It's just incredibly weird for me to see someone say Java is missing some sort of framework, it just has EVERY kind you can probably imagine.
- evantbyrne 2y ago
  Framework _and_ CMS so most of these don't seem to apply. I haven't seen Vaadin before so that's interesting. JHipster seems like the closest to the ones I mentioned but the UI looks unpolished in the overview video.