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python just didn't have much momentum until relatively recently, despite it's age. There are efforts to speed it up going on now backed by Microsoft. For pypy

python just didn't have much momentum until relatively recently, despite it's age. There are efforts to speed it up going on now backed by Microsoft. For pypy it's in a weird spot as the things it does fast are the ones you'd usually just offload to a module implemented in C

sieve 2y ago
> There are efforts to speed it up Well, the extensions are going to complicate this a lot. A fast JIT interpreter cannot reach into a library and do its magic there the way HotSpot/V8 can with native Java/JS code.
simonw 2y ago
As a long time Pythonista I was going to push back against your suggestion that Python didn't have much momentum until recently, but then I looked at the historic graph on https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ and yeah, Python's current huge rise in popularity didn't really get started until around 2018. (TIOBE's methodology is a bit questionable though, as far as I can tell it's almost entirely based on how many search engine hits they get for "X programming". https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programminglanguages_definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programminglanguages_defin...)
- tialaramex 2y ago
  Yes, TIOBE is garbage. The biggest problem is that because they're coy about methodology we don't even know what we're talking about. Rust's "Most Loved" Stack Overflow numbers were at least a specific thing where you can say OK that doesn't mean there's more Rust software or that Rust programmers get paid more, apparently the people programming in Rust really like Rust, more so than say, Python programmers loved Python - so that's good to know, but it's that and not anything else.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Tiobe is garbage. I remember Python making waves since 2005 with Google using it and such.
  - Numerlor 2y ago
    From what I can tell it wasn't as prominent as it has been recently, with being a popular pick for random projects that weren't just gluing things together. The big companies that used it were perfectly happy specializing the interpreter to their use case instead of upstreaming general improvements
- collinmanderson 2y ago
  python had momentum until the 2->3 transition put a huge damper on it around 2012-2016. Python got lucky with the machine learning community using Python. (Thank you TensorFlow and PyTorch, and the SciPy community for saving Python.)

sieve 2y ago

> There are efforts to speed it up Well, the extensions are going to complicate this a lot. A fast JIT interpreter cannot reach into a library and do its magic there the way HotSpot/V8 can with native Java/JS code.

simonw 2y ago

As a long time Pythonista I was going to push back against your suggestion that Python didn't have much momentum until recently, but then I looked at the historic graph on https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ and yeah, Python's current huge rise in popularity didn't really get started until around 2018. (TIOBE's methodology is a bit questionable though, as far as I can tell it's almost entirely based on how many search engine hits they get for "X programming". https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programminglanguages_definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programminglanguages_defin...)

tialaramex 2y ago
Yes, TIOBE is garbage. The biggest problem is that because they're coy about methodology we don't even know what we're talking about. Rust's "Most Loved" Stack Overflow numbers were at least a specific thing where you can say OK that doesn't mean there's more Rust software or that Rust programmers get paid more, apparently the people programming in Rust really like Rust, more so than say, Python programmers loved Python - so that's good to know, but it's that and not anything else.
wiseowise 2y ago
Tiobe is garbage. I remember Python making waves since 2005 with Google using it and such.
- Numerlor 2y ago
  From what I can tell it wasn't as prominent as it has been recently, with being a popular pick for random projects that weren't just gluing things together. The big companies that used it were perfectly happy specializing the interpreter to their use case instead of upstreaming general improvements
collinmanderson 2y ago
python had momentum until the 2->3 transition put a huge damper on it around 2012-2016. Python got lucky with the machine learning community using Python. (Thank you TensorFlow and PyTorch, and the SciPy community for saving Python.)