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Big problems for APIs though because TS types disappear at runtime. So now you need to add in Zod or Valibot as well to validate your types. If you have view

Big problems for APIs though because TS types disappear at runtime. So now you need to add in Zod or Valibot as well to validate your types. If you have view models and DTOs, then you add more Zod. Might as well use a statically typed language? Working with OpenAPI is much easier when you already have a static type system. How about database transactions? Ran into an interesting issue this week. In a .NET world, every ORM can participate in an ambient transaction because everyone uses System.Transactions. Not the case in Node because there's no such thing. Would not build backends in TS except for true microservices. The ergonomics of a Nest.js vs .NET Web API are night and day.

amazingamazing 2y ago
> How about database transactions? Ran into an interesting issue this week. In a .NET world, every ORM can participate in an ambient transaction because everyone uses System.Transactions. Not the case in Node because there's no such thing. I mean you could say the same thing about TypeScript - if your entire stack is TypeScript then there's no need for the type validation either.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  Even if your entire stack is TS, you still need validation because the submitted data from an external interface (API call) might not be valid. You can't just accept any JSON payload and expect it to be valid. In Java or .NET, it will fail at serialization when the runtime tries to map it to a static type (automatic). This is not the case at runtime with JS (because at runtime, it's no longer TS). Thus you need a Zod or a Valibot to ensure the incoming payload is actually valid by describing the valid types (even if your whole stack is TS at dev time because schema mismatches are a runtime problem). .NETs System.Text.Json does the mapping and validation using either reflection or AOT generated serializers transparently and automatically because it has static types.
  - amazingamazing 2y ago
    Yes .NET's built in SDK is larger than Node.JS's. I'm not sure what your point is exactly. As you stated just use a validation library if that's necessary. It generally is not though, you can cast the entire output to a type in TypeScript, of course this isn't validation, but it's generally good enough. Of course if you’re writing a full stack app you can share everything, validating the front and backend with the same code. Clearly that would be a strange thing to hold against .net, similar to the lack of built in validation in typescript.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      You double up your work. What you really wanted all along are static types.
      - amazingamazing 2y ago
        not necessarily, and in plenty of programming languages static types do not give you validation for free, and in the case of .net you still have to call something else. it's no different than just using zod, other than the fact that it's built in. if you're using typescript in the front end, seems double to even bother to introduce .net, when typescript and node is fine for the backend too.
        CharlieDigital 2y ago
        > [amazingamazing 31 minutes ago] I mean you could say the same thing about TypeScript - if your entire stack is TypeScript then there's no need for the type validation either. I think that if you're here trying to make the case that if your whole stack is TS, you don't need to validate your incoming data, then you probably haven't built a system of consequence where the data actually matters and none of this discussion really matters; you have no context. Go ahead and try to `curl` some nonsense data to any of your TS endpoints and see what happens at runtime without validation.
        2y ago

amazingamazing 2y ago

> How about database transactions? Ran into an interesting issue this week. In a .NET world, every ORM can participate in an ambient transaction because everyone uses System.Transactions. Not the case in Node because there's no such thing. I mean you could say the same thing about TypeScript - if your entire stack is TypeScript then there's no need for the type validation either.

CharlieDigital 2y ago
Even if your entire stack is TS, you still need validation because the submitted data from an external interface (API call) might not be valid. You can't just accept any JSON payload and expect it to be valid. In Java or .NET, it will fail at serialization when the runtime tries to map it to a static type (automatic). This is not the case at runtime with JS (because at runtime, it's no longer TS). Thus you need a Zod or a Valibot to ensure the incoming payload is actually valid by describing the valid types (even if your whole stack is TS at dev time because schema mismatches are a runtime problem). .NETs System.Text.Json does the mapping and validation using either reflection or AOT generated serializers transparently and automatically because it has static types.
- amazingamazing 2y ago
  Yes .NET's built in SDK is larger than Node.JS's. I'm not sure what your point is exactly. As you stated just use a validation library if that's necessary. It generally is not though, you can cast the entire output to a type in TypeScript, of course this isn't validation, but it's generally good enough. Of course if you’re writing a full stack app you can share everything, validating the front and backend with the same code. Clearly that would be a strange thing to hold against .net, similar to the lack of built in validation in typescript.
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    You double up your work. What you really wanted all along are static types.
    - amazingamazing 2y ago
      not necessarily, and in plenty of programming languages static types do not give you validation for free, and in the case of .net you still have to call something else. it's no different than just using zod, other than the fact that it's built in. if you're using typescript in the front end, seems double to even bother to introduce .net, when typescript and node is fine for the backend too.
      - CharlieDigital 2y ago
        > [amazingamazing 31 minutes ago] I mean you could say the same thing about TypeScript - if your entire stack is TypeScript then there's no need for the type validation either. I think that if you're here trying to make the case that if your whole stack is TS, you don't need to validate your incoming data, then you probably haven't built a system of consequence where the data actually matters and none of this discussion really matters; you have no context. Go ahead and try to `curl` some nonsense data to any of your TS endpoints and see what happens at runtime without validation.
        2y ago