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Spring by far - Spring is effectively a build tool running at run time (scanning, enhance, code generation, etc.) - most of it is just startup as JVM does a dec

by xxs 2y ago

Spring by far - Spring is effectively a build tool running at run time (scanning, enhance, code generation, etc.) - most of it is just startup as JVM does a decent job at optimizing the cruft. In most cases the boot times don't matter, though - at least for most people, esp. when it comes to production. (it's mostly developers time wasted) I have some personal experience optimizing Spring to record previous runs and effectively cache resolution and code generation, etc. for massive boot latency improvements. Never got around contributing it back, though (not a real spring user)

jamesfinlayson 2y ago
> most of it is just startup Yep, I have some Spring code in AWS ECS and it hits 100% CPU usage on start-up before dropping back to 1.5% when idling (this is with 1 vCPU I think). But yeah I remember reading one of the Spring devs say that some (a lot?) of the runtime reflection could be done at compile time but isn't.
- xxs 2y ago
  > Spring devs say that some (a lot?) of the runtime reflection It's a lot more than reflection, if it'd have been reflection alone - it'd be markedly better. (and yes, lots and lots can be optimized). Spring effectively: scans the classpath for resources - that includes jars, file system loads every single class matching the scanned directories as a byte array parses it in java (not by JVM) to check what annotations it has (it doesn't load the classes actually) builds dependency tree enhances the previously loaded byte arrays, i.e. generates different byte code loads the newly enhanced classes and create instances (usually through standard reflection) makes calls like PostInit (life cycle) in some cases it uses the standard java reflection to set fields/call methods; in lots of cases java reflection is generating (and loading) a new class (byte code) to carry the process all the steps above can be recorded on run time (or be a step in the build process) and let the JVM just load the classes organically. as for the 100%, spring initialization is mostly single threaded - so likely you dont have many cpus dedicated to the java process. (or you meant just a single core 100%)
  - jamesfinlayson 2y ago
    Ah okay - yeah I'm not across the internals at all. And yeah I assume it's a single core, but definitely a heavy start.
- trallnag 2y ago
  This makes recycling nodes, be it ECS or Kubernetes nodes, that run tons of Spring apps, a huge pain.

by xxs 2y ago

jamesfinlayson 2y ago

> most of it is just startup Yep, I have some Spring code in AWS ECS and it hits 100% CPU usage on start-up before dropping back to 1.5% when idling (this is with 1 vCPU I think). But yeah I remember reading one of the Spring devs say that some (a lot?) of the runtime reflection could be done at compile time but isn't.

xxs 2y ago
> Spring devs say that some (a lot?) of the runtime reflection It's a lot more than reflection, if it'd have been reflection alone - it'd be markedly better. (and yes, lots and lots can be optimized). Spring effectively: scans the classpath for resources - that includes jars, file system loads every single class matching the scanned directories as a byte array parses it in java (not by JVM) to check what annotations it has (it doesn't load the classes actually) builds dependency tree enhances the previously loaded byte arrays, i.e. generates different byte code loads the newly enhanced classes and create instances (usually through standard reflection) makes calls like PostInit (life cycle) in some cases it uses the standard java reflection to set fields/call methods; in lots of cases java reflection is generating (and loading) a new class (byte code) to carry the process all the steps above can be recorded on run time (or be a step in the build process) and let the JVM just load the classes organically. as for the 100%, spring initialization is mostly single threaded - so likely you dont have many cpus dedicated to the java process. (or you meant just a single core 100%)
- jamesfinlayson 2y ago
  Ah okay - yeah I'm not across the internals at all. And yeah I assume it's a single core, but definitely a heavy start.
trallnag 2y ago
This makes recycling nodes, be it ECS or Kubernetes nodes, that run tons of Spring apps, a huge pain.