4 ms·

This is just deliberately overstated language written by lawyers, to give CL maximum legal power if they ever need it. In practice they let search engines index

by pg 14y ago

This is just deliberately overstated language written by lawyers, to give CL maximum legal power if they ever need it. In practice they let search engines index them, and users know and expect that.

Avshalom 14y ago
>and users know and expect that. [citation needed]
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
cynicalkane 14y ago
You said that the user data is "not Craigslist's data", but the license agreement shows that it is Craigslist's data. They have an exclusive license and power to enforce it. If the license agreement isn't enough, then I guess I don't know what you mean by "not Craigslist's data".
- jahmed 14y ago
  Craigslist can claim whatever they want but that does not make it true. When you post an apartment for rent that is factual information that an apartment at a particular location is available for a specific price. Much like the case of a movie theater offering tickets to a showing at a specific place and time. Padmapper (which I just used just before this whole situation and found an awesome place) doesnt take your 'creative' post. They merely take the factual title and existence of a listing and direct you to it.
  - cynicalkane 14y ago
    One, the presentation of factual information can be intellectual property; two, the presentation of someone else's factual information can be intellectual property. The Craigslist-hate is very strange considering much of this community was seeded by people providing web interfaces to information. I bet there are a number of YC companies that would send out the lawyers if they found their sites being illegally scraped and repackaged.
    - ericd 14y ago
      I'm not sure if you've used PadMapper, but it's showing things about the listings, not the listings themselves. To see those, you have to click through to the listing.
    - dwynings 14y ago
      I bet you most YC startups offer an API, negating the need for scraping =)
    - jahmed 14y ago
      Yes the creative presentation of factual information can be protected intellectual property. Craigslist however only collects information it is given and displays them as such. Craigslist does not add any creativity or originality to the posts. The is no "Craigslist-hate" but I do disagree on their claimed ownership of facts. I think Feist v. Rural (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=499&invol=340 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&#3...) covered this pretty well.
rubyrescue 14y ago
That's really irrelevant, though, isn't it? CL could allow search engines to index but could explicitly disallow third parties (fourth parties?) from using the content, regardless of how that additional party retrieved that content.
- Natsu 14y ago
  > That's really irrelevant, though, isn't it? To me, it sounds a lot like the MLB statements before every ballgame and I question whether they have any actual legal force. If CL had any sense, they'd try to buy PadMapper to improve their service.

by pg 14y ago

This is just deliberately overstated language written by lawyers, to give CL maximum legal power if they ever need it. In practice they let search engines index them, and users know and expect that.

Avshalom 14y ago

>and users know and expect that. [citation needed]

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

cynicalkane 14y ago

You said that the user data is "not Craigslist's data", but the license agreement shows that it is Craigslist's data. They have an exclusive license and power to enforce it. If the license agreement isn't enough, then I guess I don't know what you mean by "not Craigslist's data".

jahmed 14y ago
Craigslist can claim whatever they want but that does not make it true. When you post an apartment for rent that is factual information that an apartment at a particular location is available for a specific price. Much like the case of a movie theater offering tickets to a showing at a specific place and time. Padmapper (which I just used just before this whole situation and found an awesome place) doesnt take your 'creative' post. They merely take the factual title and existence of a listing and direct you to it.
- cynicalkane 14y ago
  One, the presentation of factual information can be intellectual property; two, the presentation of someone else's factual information can be intellectual property. The Craigslist-hate is very strange considering much of this community was seeded by people providing web interfaces to information. I bet there are a number of YC companies that would send out the lawyers if they found their sites being illegally scraped and repackaged.
  - ericd 14y ago
    I'm not sure if you've used PadMapper, but it's showing things about the listings, not the listings themselves. To see those, you have to click through to the listing.
  - dwynings 14y ago
    I bet you most YC startups offer an API, negating the need for scraping =)
  - jahmed 14y ago
    Yes the creative presentation of factual information can be protected intellectual property. Craigslist however only collects information it is given and displays them as such. Craigslist does not add any creativity or originality to the posts. The is no "Craigslist-hate" but I do disagree on their claimed ownership of facts. I think Feist v. Rural (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=499&invol=340 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&#3...) covered this pretty well.

rubyrescue 14y ago

That's really irrelevant, though, isn't it? CL could allow search engines to index but could explicitly disallow third parties (fourth parties?) from using the content, regardless of how that additional party retrieved that content.

Natsu 14y ago
> That's really irrelevant, though, isn't it? To me, it sounds a lot like the MLB statements before every ballgame and I question whether they have any actual legal force. If CL had any sense, they'd try to buy PadMapper to improve their service.