4 ms·

Id were using a 3rd party sound library for Doom to handle the nitty-gritty aspects of DOS sound hardware, so the open source release was based on the linux por

by phire 2y ago

Id were using a 3rd party sound library for Doom to handle the nitty-gritty aspects of DOS sound hardware, so the open source release was based on the linux port of Doom. People had to port it back to DOS. They couldn't release the windows port of Doom either, as that had been done by Microsoft, and would therefore include Microsoft copyrighted code. With Quake, Id did their own windows port, so it was possible to release the source code for winquake.

stevage 2y ago
> as that had been done by Microsoft, and would therefore include Microsoft copyrighted code. How does that follow? Normally copyright would transfer to the company paying for it.
- nocman 2y ago
  It all depends on how the contract between Microsoft and Id was worded.
  - phire 2y ago
    If Id had paid Microsoft to do the port, it would automatically be work-for-hire and the copyrights would belong to Id, unless the contract said otherwise. But Microsoft essentially licensed the Doom source code and ported it themselves, it's not work-for-hire, so the copyright on any changes would default to Microsoft. Though, I'm really not sure if Microsoft paid anything for this licence, or if there even was a contract.
    - kragen 2y ago
      This is a comprehensively incorrect explanation of copyright and contract law.
    - lmm 2y ago
      > If Id had paid Microsoft to do the port, it would automatically be work-for-hire and the copyrights would belong to Id, unless the contract said otherwise. Nope, not true. Work by non employees is only work-for-hire if it falls into one of the qualifying categories and the contract explicitly says that it is work-for-hire.
    - zeroq 2y ago
      It's definitely a topic for a CSI: HN, but I think it's a was most likely a part of a larger agreement between a relatively small shop and a behemoth.
    - bitwize 2y ago
      It's not automatically work-for-hire; that has to be stipulated in the contract. Recently there was a lawsuit about this involving, of all things, Sonic the Hedgehog. An artist and writer named Ken Penders, working for Archie Comics on Sonic comic books, sued his former employer claiming ownership over certain characters created for the comic, most notably those connected to Knuckles the Echidna. Because Archie couldn't prove that Penders's comic work was work for hire (they lost the original contract), they settled out of court in favor of Penders. This ended up losing the Sonic license and had various effects on the Sonic universe. For example, he threatened to sue Paramount over the idea of Knuckles having a father, because Knuckles's Archie Comic universe father was a Penders creation. So rather than depict his father directly for the Knuckles series, they represented him with a puppet in an abstract sequence -- a puppet bearing a suspiciously Penders-like moustache.
- bitwize 2y ago
  Microsoft weren't hired by Id to port Doom. They did so exclusively for their own purposes: to show off Windows 95 with DirectX as a performance gaming platform. They licensed the Doom engine, made their own changes, and released Doom 95 usable with a retail copy of the game assets. Oddly enough, the project of "porting Doom to Windows" was started by Gabe Newell, who worked at Microsoft at the time,
  - rzzzt 2y ago
    The earliest(? - who knows) release of the port is from 1994, ran on 3.x and used the WinG and Win32s API: - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom2 https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom2 - https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/03/29/windoom-wing-win32s-on-windows-3-1-on-qemu/ https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/03/29/windoom-wing-win32s-on-w...
    - bitwize 2y ago
      I knew Gaben's initial project was for 3.x and WinG, but I didn't know it was released!
  - stevage 2y ago
    Ah, that makes sense, thanks.
ndiddy 2y ago
The wording used in the release notes was: > The bad news: this code only compiles and runs on linux. We couldn't release the dos code because of a copyrighted sound library we used (wow, was that a mistake -- I write my own sound code now), and I honestly don't even know what happened to the port that microsoft did to windows. > Still, the code is quite portable, and it should be straightforward to bring it up on just about any platform. It seems like they just didn't have immediate access to the code for the Windows version. The DOS source code eventually leaked a couple years ago along with the code to the Mac port of Doom. https://archive.org/details/doom-mac-source https://archive.org/details/doom-mac-source
tadfisher 2y ago
Fun fact: Gabe Newell built the original WinDoom port, and led the team that built Doom95!
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  That IS a fun fact.
  - Me001 2y ago
    [dead]
- sho_hn 2y ago
  To be clear, Robert Hess was the primary engineer on WinDoom, Newell was the team lead.
- Scuds 2y ago
  I thought Monolith worked on doom95.

by phire 2y ago

stevage 2y ago

> as that had been done by Microsoft, and would therefore include Microsoft copyrighted code. How does that follow? Normally copyright would transfer to the company paying for it.

nocman 2y ago
It all depends on how the contract between Microsoft and Id was worded.
- phire 2y ago
  If Id had paid Microsoft to do the port, it would automatically be work-for-hire and the copyrights would belong to Id, unless the contract said otherwise. But Microsoft essentially licensed the Doom source code and ported it themselves, it's not work-for-hire, so the copyright on any changes would default to Microsoft. Though, I'm really not sure if Microsoft paid anything for this licence, or if there even was a contract.
  - kragen 2y ago
    This is a comprehensively incorrect explanation of copyright and contract law.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > If Id had paid Microsoft to do the port, it would automatically be work-for-hire and the copyrights would belong to Id, unless the contract said otherwise. Nope, not true. Work by non employees is only work-for-hire if it falls into one of the qualifying categories and the contract explicitly says that it is work-for-hire.
  - zeroq 2y ago
    It's definitely a topic for a CSI: HN, but I think it's a was most likely a part of a larger agreement between a relatively small shop and a behemoth.
  - bitwize 2y ago
    It's not automatically work-for-hire; that has to be stipulated in the contract. Recently there was a lawsuit about this involving, of all things, Sonic the Hedgehog. An artist and writer named Ken Penders, working for Archie Comics on Sonic comic books, sued his former employer claiming ownership over certain characters created for the comic, most notably those connected to Knuckles the Echidna. Because Archie couldn't prove that Penders's comic work was work for hire (they lost the original contract), they settled out of court in favor of Penders. This ended up losing the Sonic license and had various effects on the Sonic universe. For example, he threatened to sue Paramount over the idea of Knuckles having a father, because Knuckles's Archie Comic universe father was a Penders creation. So rather than depict his father directly for the Knuckles series, they represented him with a puppet in an abstract sequence -- a puppet bearing a suspiciously Penders-like moustache.
bitwize 2y ago
Microsoft weren't hired by Id to port Doom. They did so exclusively for their own purposes: to show off Windows 95 with DirectX as a performance gaming platform. They licensed the Doom engine, made their own changes, and released Doom 95 usable with a retail copy of the game assets. Oddly enough, the project of "porting Doom to Windows" was started by Gabe Newell, who worked at Microsoft at the time,
- rzzzt 2y ago
  The earliest(? - who knows) release of the port is from 1994, ran on 3.x and used the WinG and Win32s API: - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom2 https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/historic/wdoom2 - https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/03/29/windoom-wing-win32s-on-windows-3-1-on-qemu/ https://virtuallyfun.com/2011/03/29/windoom-wing-win32s-on-w...
  - bitwize 2y ago
    I knew Gaben's initial project was for 3.x and WinG, but I didn't know it was released!
- stevage 2y ago
  Ah, that makes sense, thanks.

ndiddy 2y ago

The wording used in the release notes was: > The bad news: this code only compiles and runs on linux. We couldn't release the dos code because of a copyrighted sound library we used (wow, was that a mistake -- I write my own sound code now), and I honestly don't even know what happened to the port that microsoft did to windows. > Still, the code is quite portable, and it should be straightforward to bring it up on just about any platform. It seems like they just didn't have immediate access to the code for the Windows version. The DOS source code eventually leaked a couple years ago along with the code to the Mac port of Doom. https://archive.org/details/doom-mac-source https://archive.org/details/doom-mac-source

tadfisher 2y ago

Fun fact: Gabe Newell built the original WinDoom port, and led the team that built Doom95!

kridsdale3 2y ago
That IS a fun fact.
- Me001 2y ago
  [dead]
sho_hn 2y ago
To be clear, Robert Hess was the primary engineer on WinDoom, Newell was the team lead.
Scuds 2y ago
I thought Monolith worked on doom95.