4 ms·

I have a 1.5-year old VW id.4. I cosign all of this (except the one-pedal driving - I prefer to leave mine in separate accel+brake mode), particularly the home

I have a 1.5-year old VW id.4. I cosign all of this (except the one-pedal driving - I prefer to leave mine in separate accel+brake mode), particularly the home charging - if you can get a home charger installed, it is a real game-changer. As compared to my previous (ICE) car, I never have to leave early because I'm low on gas & need to stop and fill up (or even have to go out of my way to fill up) and day-to-day I have less range anxiety with my EV because I always leave the house with a full charge. After the one-time expense of getting a charger installed it's both cheaper and more pleasant to operate than my old ICE.

the_gastropod 2y ago
I don't have a garage, and the whole "getting a charger installed" thing was a bit of a deterrent for me getting an EV. But after getting one, I've realized Level 1 charging on a standard 110V outlet is more than sufficient for my needs. On the Bolt, you add ~4 miles per hour of charging. So if you drive, on average, under ~50 miles per day (which most Americans do), a level 1 charger should easily handle your needs.
- nomel 2y ago
  "Installing" a charger is just plugging it into the standard 240V outlet, maybe with a screw in the wall to hold it up. The cost is getting the outlet wired, with a possible upgrade to the panel. Some dishonest electricians have "charger installation" as a much higher price. I went with a fancy Wallbox charger at first, which promptly burnt out and was a general connection disaster, replacing it with a more consistent $60 Amazon charger. They're glorified relays, with a pulse train (no computer required) that is used to set/modulate car side power draw [1]. [1] https://www.picoauto.com/library/automotive-guided-tests/charger-vehicle-communications-type-2 https://www.picoauto.com/library/automotive-guided-tests/cha...
natch 2y ago
Generally speaking nobody needs a charger installed. A good three prong 110 outlet is sufficient. We found one single 110 outlet sufficient for two cars for two years with around town driving, having outside fast chargers as a backup if needed for longer trip days. One. And a 220 outlet is vastly, way beyond, sufficient for three cars. No charger. Just an outlet and a cable.
- gottorf 2y ago
  From what I've seen of EVs currently on the market, level 1 charging (standard 15-amp 120V outlet) adds 2-5 miles of range per hour. For a typical commuter who returns home at 6pm and leaves home at 7am, that allows for 13 hours or 26-65 miles of range charged overnight. Apparently Americans drive an average of 42 miles a day[0], and I'd wager that EV owners tend to be in higher-density areas with shorter commutes, so that may be enough. In my personal case, living in a small metro area in a state that's middle of the pack in terms of population density, my ideal would be a small EV for putzing around town (which is conservatively speaking 95% of the occasions that I get behind the wheel), and a larger gasoline car for road trips. Of course, everyone's mileage (heh) will vary. [0]: https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us-map https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us...
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    Would a plug-in hybrid be able to satisfy both needs?
    - chipsa 2y ago
      My wife drives a i3 Rex, which is a plugin hybrid. We’ve taken it on a 6 hour road trip before. It was doable, though I’ll admit it wasn’t the best hybrid for a road trip.
      - coldtea 2y ago
        Wasn't the best? People have been taking multi-day roadtrips with a Yugo or a Fiat Mini. An i3 Rex for just a 6 hour road trip? Hell, i3 would tackle a 6 hour daily commute just fine...
  - cozzyd 2y ago
    You can always rent a car for road trips. Yes it's not super cheap but cheaper than keeping another car around, depending on your rate of road trips. It's what I do (but I don't own any cars at all, so it's somewhat more expensive for me to rent since I need to purchase supplemental liability insurance).
ern 2y ago
I have a 240v wall outlet that charges at 1.5kW and it's more than adequate 95%+ of the time.
- nomel 2y ago
  240V is level 2 and should handle > 6kW. It's nice for the weekends, for a charge during lunch before heading out. I've done that maybe twice.
  - ern 2y ago
    Depends on the country. Outside of North America, 240v is L1.
ineedasername 2y ago
All of this talk of having to stop for gas instead of charging passively at each place you go sounds really strange. I really like EV’s, but the longer stop times for when you do need to recharge a bit when you’re out are reasonable balanced against faster gas station stops especially outside of higher density infrastructure suburban/urban areas. The above sorts of comments ring in my ears along these lines: “Oh that 7 minutes of checking my email while I refill my tank was horrible. Leaving the house so much earlier if I hadn’t done it the day before was truly oppressive. And these days I luxuriate in those rare gifted 20 minutes of leisure when I choose to recharge my battery while on the go!” The range-recharge vs. gas station stops argument really seems pretty evenly balanced unless you don’t live where there is much charging infrastructure. Personally, my dream balance would be something that could go 50 miles on a charge but had an ICE tank that could take me 150-200 miles. That EV capacity would cover 95% of driving, and for most people I know without long commutes, and the other 5% would just mean I had to fuel up on both ends of a 3-4 hour drive instead of just once. Or every 3-4 hours instead of 6-8 of the extremely rare longer drives. Also for those, I’d have the 50mile EV range as backup for running out of gas, not to mention a massive mobile power bank to keep heat & phone battery going if I had a breakdown somewhere.
- asoneth 2y ago
  > “Oh that 7 minutes of checking my email while I refill my tank was horrible. Leaving the house so much earlier if I hadn’t done it the day before was truly oppressive. And these days I luxuriate in those rare gifted 20 minutes of leisure when I choose to recharge my battery while on the go!” Please avoid strawman arguments. If you're truly curious why some people prefer longer electric charging stops on road trips to shorter bi-weekly gas station stops: Even when not strictly necessary for refueling, my family takes a ~10 minute break after every ~4 hours of driving to let everyone stretch and use a restroom. No one has objected to extending these stops to ~15 minutes when we take the EV. The primary inconvenience has been that it has constrained where we stop, as many of our old stops do not have charging infrastructure. Whereas a refueling stop during a shorter trip (including running errands or during a daily commute) introduces an entirely new stop that serves no additional purpose.

the_gastropod 2y ago

I don't have a garage, and the whole "getting a charger installed" thing was a bit of a deterrent for me getting an EV. But after getting one, I've realized Level 1 charging on a standard 110V outlet is more than sufficient for my needs. On the Bolt, you add ~4 miles per hour of charging. So if you drive, on average, under ~50 miles per day (which most Americans do), a level 1 charger should easily handle your needs.

nomel 2y ago
"Installing" a charger is just plugging it into the standard 240V outlet, maybe with a screw in the wall to hold it up. The cost is getting the outlet wired, with a possible upgrade to the panel. Some dishonest electricians have "charger installation" as a much higher price. I went with a fancy Wallbox charger at first, which promptly burnt out and was a general connection disaster, replacing it with a more consistent $60 Amazon charger. They're glorified relays, with a pulse train (no computer required) that is used to set/modulate car side power draw [1]. [1] https://www.picoauto.com/library/automotive-guided-tests/charger-vehicle-communications-type-2 https://www.picoauto.com/library/automotive-guided-tests/cha...

natch 2y ago

Generally speaking nobody needs a charger installed. A good three prong 110 outlet is sufficient. We found one single 110 outlet sufficient for two cars for two years with around town driving, having outside fast chargers as a backup if needed for longer trip days. One. And a 220 outlet is vastly, way beyond, sufficient for three cars. No charger. Just an outlet and a cable.

gottorf 2y ago
From what I've seen of EVs currently on the market, level 1 charging (standard 15-amp 120V outlet) adds 2-5 miles of range per hour. For a typical commuter who returns home at 6pm and leaves home at 7am, that allows for 13 hours or 26-65 miles of range charged overnight. Apparently Americans drive an average of 42 miles a day[0], and I'd wager that EV owners tend to be in higher-density areas with shorter commutes, so that may be enough. In my personal case, living in a small metro area in a state that's middle of the pack in terms of population density, my ideal would be a small EV for putzing around town (which is conservatively speaking 95% of the occasions that I get behind the wheel), and a larger gasoline car for road trips. Of course, everyone's mileage (heh) will vary. [0]: https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us-map https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us...
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  Would a plug-in hybrid be able to satisfy both needs?
  - chipsa 2y ago
    My wife drives a i3 Rex, which is a plugin hybrid. We’ve taken it on a 6 hour road trip before. It was doable, though I’ll admit it wasn’t the best hybrid for a road trip.
    - coldtea 2y ago
      Wasn't the best? People have been taking multi-day roadtrips with a Yugo or a Fiat Mini. An i3 Rex for just a 6 hour road trip? Hell, i3 would tackle a 6 hour daily commute just fine...
- cozzyd 2y ago
  You can always rent a car for road trips. Yes it's not super cheap but cheaper than keeping another car around, depending on your rate of road trips. It's what I do (but I don't own any cars at all, so it's somewhat more expensive for me to rent since I need to purchase supplemental liability insurance).

ern 2y ago

I have a 240v wall outlet that charges at 1.5kW and it's more than adequate 95%+ of the time.

nomel 2y ago
240V is level 2 and should handle > 6kW. It's nice for the weekends, for a charge during lunch before heading out. I've done that maybe twice.
- ern 2y ago
  Depends on the country. Outside of North America, 240v is L1.

ineedasername 2y ago

All of this talk of having to stop for gas instead of charging passively at each place you go sounds really strange. I really like EV’s, but the longer stop times for when you do need to recharge a bit when you’re out are reasonable balanced against faster gas station stops especially outside of higher density infrastructure suburban/urban areas. The above sorts of comments ring in my ears along these lines: “Oh that 7 minutes of checking my email while I refill my tank was horrible. Leaving the house so much earlier if I hadn’t done it the day before was truly oppressive. And these days I luxuriate in those rare gifted 20 minutes of leisure when I choose to recharge my battery while on the go!” The range-recharge vs. gas station stops argument really seems pretty evenly balanced unless you don’t live where there is much charging infrastructure. Personally, my dream balance would be something that could go 50 miles on a charge but had an ICE tank that could take me 150-200 miles. That EV capacity would cover 95% of driving, and for most people I know without long commutes, and the other 5% would just mean I had to fuel up on both ends of a 3-4 hour drive instead of just once. Or every 3-4 hours instead of 6-8 of the extremely rare longer drives. Also for those, I’d have the 50mile EV range as backup for running out of gas, not to mention a massive mobile power bank to keep heat & phone battery going if I had a breakdown somewhere.

asoneth 2y ago
> “Oh that 7 minutes of checking my email while I refill my tank was horrible. Leaving the house so much earlier if I hadn’t done it the day before was truly oppressive. And these days I luxuriate in those rare gifted 20 minutes of leisure when I choose to recharge my battery while on the go!” Please avoid strawman arguments. If you're truly curious why some people prefer longer electric charging stops on road trips to shorter bi-weekly gas station stops: Even when not strictly necessary for refueling, my family takes a ~10 minute break after every ~4 hours of driving to let everyone stretch and use a restroom. No one has objected to extending these stops to ~15 minutes when we take the EV. The primary inconvenience has been that it has constrained where we stop, as many of our old stops do not have charging infrastructure. Whereas a refueling stop during a shorter trip (including running errands or during a daily commute) introduces an entirely new stop that serves no additional purpose.