7 ms·

Am I a cyborg now?

86 points by majke 14y ago

Tyr42 14y ago
Did you see the NorthPaw? It's a band of 8 buzzers that goes around an ankle, and buzzed Magnetic North as you walk around.
- majke 14y ago
  I've seen something like that on BBC Horizon. The idea was to give this to a blind person to help with navigation. BTW, I'd like to know if a single buzzer is enough for this purpose - vibrate stronger as the angle north gets smaller. I'm quite sure human would be able to quickly learn this. Or maybe a combination of two buzzers. BTW', I don't need to mention that I had similar idea to Indoor Atlas http://www.indooratlas.com/technology.html http://www.indooratlas.com/technology.html (but of course, ideas don't matter only execution)
- jokermatt999 14y ago
  http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw Quinn Norton had a good series on it. There's also a longer talk by her about body hacking in general online. http://youtu.be/voA7Uz7uABE http://youtu.be/voA7Uz7uABE It's an interesting frontier, but I don't have any good resource that has continual updates on it. Any recommendations? The only other place I've really seen stuff about it is BME Zine, but it's focused on BME in general, so there's a lot more noise than signal.
- ComputerGuru 14y ago
  I don't get why it has to be so bulky! Surly there's a better way of implementing this that's actually closer to the true meaning of "anklet" - I'd be genuinely interested in wearing something like this as I have a great memory for maps but a completely abysmal sense of direction.
blueprint 14y ago
Get thee to kickstarter! I would so buy one of these in final form.
ricardobeat 14y ago
> I'm able to detect more sophisticated changes in the field The magnet implant is probably way more sensitive vs this binary device, since it's pressing your sensory receptors in your fingers; they can also sense temperature and position changes.
- blueprint 14y ago
  I agree. How do you think that could be circumvented w/o an implant? Electrodes might work but who wants to do that….
- majke 14y ago
  Okay, this might have been an overstatement. I assumed that you can't feel static magnetic field, only changing one. Can anyone with a magnet implant comment?
  - mistercow 14y ago
    Presumably, a magnet implant would allow you to feel a static magnetic field by moving your hand around, since that would, from your finger's point of view, turn it into a changing magnetic field.
  - Sgoettschkes 14y ago
    You can feel both. For me static fields are a very strange feeling which is not very comfortable. Having only one small magnet (the second generation ones from Steve Haworth) I have to concentrate to feel a low static magnetic field. Changing ones are more obvious and way more comfy. I think this is because a static one pulls or pushes the magnet all the time while changing ones let the magnet "vibrate" (from pulling and pushing all the time).
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- Natsu 14y ago
  Does the magnet even have to be implanted? I'd think that you could just stick it to your finger and get the same results without resorting to surgery. Perhaps just use one of those little rubber fingertips that administrative assistants use while filing?
beambot 14y ago
This is called a "vibrotactile display". They've been around for quite some time (1970s). In fact, you can make "electrostatic vibrotactile displays" using small electrodes to deform the skin and get much higher density (ie. to make fake, programmable textures) -- these are starting to find their way into cellphone screens. You'll find lots of examples... usually attached to a person's forehead, tongue, or back. Here's some more info: http://www.hizook.com/blog/2010/08/11/electrotactile-arrays-texture-and-pressure-feedback-during-robotic-teleoperation http://www.hizook.com/blog/2010/08/11/electrotactile-arrays-...
- unimpressive 14y ago
  I've wondered for quite a while if this was possible. Thank you for sharing.
breckinloggins 14y ago
Hacking the senses is a side interest of mine. Some thoughts and questions: - Do people who get these magnetic implants actually develop different "qualia" along with their new perceptions, or do they just add different interpretations to existing qualia? - With respect to this specific device, does the buzzing change intensity proportional to the field, or is it an "on/off" thing? - My understanding of nerves like touch receptors is that they activate in response to a stimulus, then send an electrical response to the brain. It sucks that you have to directly implant these little magnets in your fingers to get the actual stimulation. Is there anyway to wear the magnets on or outside your skin (say, embedded in a glove) and still get the nerve stimulation? I'm thinking of something like magnetic induction or some other resonance effect between some target and the nerves.
- Cushman 14y ago
  > Do people who get these magnetic implants actually develop different "qualia" along with their new perceptions, or do they just add different interpretations to existing qualia? I'm not sure what the right answer is with regards to magnetic implants, but some people who have used the haptic compass mentioned in another comment have reported developing a seemingly innate "sixth sense" of direction. Presumably that might apply to a wide range of augmented sensory apparatus.
- sp332 14y ago
  You do get a different "qualia". The "northpaw" has been around for a few years, it's a set of pager-buzzers that always buzz on the north side of your leg. http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ Users say they stop feeling the vibrations pretty quickly and they just "know" which way is north. http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw
  - shiftb 14y ago
    I wonder what happens when one stops wearing the Northpaw. Do they lose the 'sense' of North or does it persist (even for a little)?
  - 14y ago
kghose 14y ago
This is very cool and interesting and HN worthy. I second all the notes here about vibrotactile displays. Please also read up about how people are developing devices that substitute somato sensation (touch) for vision for blind people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution
mindslight 14y ago
> I don't know if it's legal to put a capacitor behind LM1117 regulator. Oh gosh yes. By default you want at least a 0.1uF ceramic close to the output of a regulator, and the additional 100uF electrolytic is good. Then since it's a one-off and not worth worrying about, I'd put another 0.1uF close to the input of the regulator, and another 100uF across the battery. And if you're still having problems at that point, possibly a small resistor in series with the buzzer to limit its inrush current. You could also replace the mechanical buzzer with a piezo buzzer (or piezo speaker and generate tones with the avr). (PS if you're stocking up, you might as well opt for 1uF ceramics and "low ESR" electrolytics for these purposes)
- majke 14y ago
  Thanks for the comment! The one capacitor I put seems to be enough for my needs for now :) But it's great to hear what's the correct thing. > I'd put another 0.1uF close to the input of the regulator, and another 100uF across the battery. Interesting. I (naively) thought that a capacitor near a LiPo battery is illegal as you're not allowed to charge the battery directly. I thought when the battery power drops a capacitor will be doing exactly that. Can you explain why that's untrue? Update: in other words: What's the difference between putting a capacitor near the battery and "charging"?
  - mindslight 14y ago
    Well I'll just first disclaim that I don't have any design experience with Li-Po batteries, although reading about them I don't see any odd requirements. The guideline to not "charge them directly" is in contrast to say lead-acid batteries, which you can simply hook up to an appropriate voltage supply and let them sit indefinitely ("trickle charging"). To the extent that you need to worry about it, the voltage on the two will be the same. The battery power only drops as you're drawing current. The point of the capacitor is to smooth out changes to the load by supplying current "first". Your capacitor will never get "more" charged than the battery somehow. The main difference versus "charging" is that you have no external energy source. From a slightly more advanced perspective, the reason for the capacitor is to smooth out the (possibly bidirectional!) transient loads on the battery. It's quite possible that your "inductive buzzer" (depending on how it's driven) is actually backfeeding a little current through the arduino and onto the supply rails. Your battery will never be overcharged this way because any such energy came from the battery itself, but smoothing out the spikes with a capacitor eases the stress on the battery. In fact, I'd be surprised if the arduino board didn't have a decent-sized capacitor immediately on its supply lines, and this is part of the reason.
cloudwalking 14y ago
Wouldn't it be easier to superglue a magnet to your pinky?
- iamdann 14y ago
  Completely different sensations.
- joshu 14y ago
  Exactly! I always wondered why nobody tried this. Although I must admit - I grew up at a time when magnets were anathema to using computers, and I remain resistant to having magnets anywhere near my work area.
ktizo 14y ago
If a three axis magnetometer was used in conjunction with electrical nerve stimulation on multiple sites, you could have the full range of compass heading, local magnetic field density and ac field sensing. Which would be cool. This has probably already been covered by the NASA Human Systems Integration Division, so it might be worth having a dig through some of their stuff - http://hsi.arc.nasa.gov/index.php http://hsi.arc.nasa.gov/index.php I think it was some of them who are working on the subvocalisation stuff - http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2004/subvocal/subvocal.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2004/subvocal... - which is basically cyborg telepathy, near as dammit.
seanx 14y ago
Could you do this with a high strength magnetic ring?
- iamdann 14y ago
  As someone with the actual implant, I'd say no. Think of it this way, people have been wearing magnetic body jewelry as an alternative to piercings for decades. Sensing magnetic fields has never been associated with magnetic jewelry. The same way that holding a buckyball between two fingers close to a fan doesn't really create an unusual or striking response. There's something unique about the implant that can't be replicated in other ways. I mean, I haven't tried this external device, but the above is my response to questions about magnetic rings, nail polish, earrings, etc.
lukifer 14y ago
We're all cyborgs already: http://abstrusegoose.com/171 http://abstrusegoose.com/171 :) Cool project and a good read, thanks.
losethos 14y ago
so you can do time travel, too, huh? God says... C:\Text\YANKEE.TXT rue?" "Part of it is." "Not all, then, not all! What part is true?" "That that spirit with the Russian name has put his spell upon the well." "God's wounds, then are we ruined!" "Possibly." "But not certainly? Ye mean, not certainly?" "That is it." "Wherefore, ye also mean that when he saith none can break the spell--" "Yes, when he says that, he says what isn't necessarily true. There are conditions under which an effort to break it may have some chance--that is, some small
praveenpenumaka 14y ago
Cant we do this with mobile application? Mobile vibrating when there is increased magnetic field or something like that. Someone can check with sample app?
graue 14y ago
This is very cool, but I was surprised to see what seems like an obvious bug in your code. In the buzzer() function, it looks like you were trying to use "buzz_prev" to optimize away extra writes of 0 when no magnetic field is detected. However, buzz_prev will never get reset because line 57, which sets it to zero, will only be executed if (!buzz_prev), that is, if it's already zero.
- majke 14y ago
  Nice catch Sir! You're right, line 57 should be below 55. Fix: https://github.com/majek/dump/commit/7e9edeba2ead00a24341ec5fa32d28326e7dd55e https://github.com/majek/dump/commit/7e9edeba2ead00a24341ec5...
ginko 14y ago
Everyone wearing corrective glasses can be considered a cyborg.
token78 14y ago
There is one technological invention, completely 'unnatural' and born of human artifice, which each and everybody on Hacker News has internalised so deeply that we take it for granted almost as natural thing. It extends our capacity for information gathering and exchange, and has extended human memory monumentally. I'm talking about writing. Yeah, I admit it - I've drunk the Marshall McLuhan Kool-Aid. But think about it. You have ancestors for whom writing was an alien and unfamiliar information technology. And yet you can look at a page and suddenly be drawn into the sensations, ideas and experiences of men and women who died generations and continents away. All thanks to a technology that we have so thoroughly integrated with our experience of being alive and human that it's become second nature. You're a cyborg already. EDIT: Wow, I'm a little surprised I'm the first person to mention McLuhan? For those that don't know, he's the bloke that coined the term 'cybernetics'.

86 points by majke 14y ago

Tyr42 14y ago

Did you see the NorthPaw? It's a band of 8 buzzers that goes around an ankle, and buzzed Magnetic North as you walk around.

majke 14y ago
I've seen something like that on BBC Horizon. The idea was to give this to a blind person to help with navigation. BTW, I'd like to know if a single buzzer is enough for this purpose - vibrate stronger as the angle north gets smaller. I'm quite sure human would be able to quickly learn this. Or maybe a combination of two buzzers. BTW', I don't need to mention that I had similar idea to Indoor Atlas http://www.indooratlas.com/technology.html http://www.indooratlas.com/technology.html (but of course, ideas don't matter only execution)
jokermatt999 14y ago
http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw Quinn Norton had a good series on it. There's also a longer talk by her about body hacking in general online. http://youtu.be/voA7Uz7uABE http://youtu.be/voA7Uz7uABE It's an interesting frontier, but I don't have any good resource that has continual updates on it. Any recommendations? The only other place I've really seen stuff about it is BME Zine, but it's focused on BME in general, so there's a lot more noise than signal.
ComputerGuru 14y ago
I don't get why it has to be so bulky! Surly there's a better way of implementing this that's actually closer to the true meaning of "anklet" - I'd be genuinely interested in wearing something like this as I have a great memory for maps but a completely abysmal sense of direction.

blueprint 14y ago

Get thee to kickstarter! I would so buy one of these in final form.

ricardobeat 14y ago

> I'm able to detect more sophisticated changes in the field The magnet implant is probably way more sensitive vs this binary device, since it's pressing your sensory receptors in your fingers; they can also sense temperature and position changes.

blueprint 14y ago
I agree. How do you think that could be circumvented w/o an implant? Electrodes might work but who wants to do that….
majke 14y ago
Okay, this might have been an overstatement. I assumed that you can't feel static magnetic field, only changing one. Can anyone with a magnet implant comment?
- mistercow 14y ago
  Presumably, a magnet implant would allow you to feel a static magnetic field by moving your hand around, since that would, from your finger's point of view, turn it into a changing magnetic field.
- Sgoettschkes 14y ago
  You can feel both. For me static fields are a very strange feeling which is not very comfortable. Having only one small magnet (the second generation ones from Steve Haworth) I have to concentrate to feel a low static magnetic field. Changing ones are more obvious and way more comfy. I think this is because a static one pulls or pushes the magnet all the time while changing ones let the magnet "vibrate" (from pulling and pushing all the time).
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
Natsu 14y ago
Does the magnet even have to be implanted? I'd think that you could just stick it to your finger and get the same results without resorting to surgery. Perhaps just use one of those little rubber fingertips that administrative assistants use while filing?

beambot 14y ago

This is called a "vibrotactile display". They've been around for quite some time (1970s). In fact, you can make "electrostatic vibrotactile displays" using small electrodes to deform the skin and get much higher density (ie. to make fake, programmable textures) -- these are starting to find their way into cellphone screens. You'll find lots of examples... usually attached to a person's forehead, tongue, or back. Here's some more info: http://www.hizook.com/blog/2010/08/11/electrotactile-arrays-texture-and-pressure-feedback-during-robotic-teleoperation http://www.hizook.com/blog/2010/08/11/electrotactile-arrays-...

unimpressive 14y ago
I've wondered for quite a while if this was possible. Thank you for sharing.

breckinloggins 14y ago

Hacking the senses is a side interest of mine. Some thoughts and questions: - Do people who get these magnetic implants actually develop different "qualia" along with their new perceptions, or do they just add different interpretations to existing qualia? - With respect to this specific device, does the buzzing change intensity proportional to the field, or is it an "on/off" thing? - My understanding of nerves like touch receptors is that they activate in response to a stimulus, then send an electrical response to the brain. It sucks that you have to directly implant these little magnets in your fingers to get the actual stimulation. Is there anyway to wear the magnets on or outside your skin (say, embedded in a glove) and still get the nerve stimulation? I'm thinking of something like magnetic induction or some other resonance effect between some target and the nerves.

Cushman 14y ago
> Do people who get these magnetic implants actually develop different "qualia" along with their new perceptions, or do they just add different interpretations to existing qualia? I'm not sure what the right answer is with regards to magnetic implants, but some people who have used the haptic compass mentioned in another comment have reported developing a seemingly innate "sixth sense" of direction. Presumably that might apply to a wide range of augmented sensory apparatus.
sp332 14y ago
You do get a different "qualia". The "northpaw" has been around for a few years, it's a set of pager-buzzers that always buzz on the north side of your leg. http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ Users say they stop feeling the vibrations pretty quickly and they just "know" which way is north. http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw http://www.quinnnorton.com/said/?tag=northpaw
- shiftb 14y ago
  I wonder what happens when one stops wearing the Northpaw. Do they lose the 'sense' of North or does it persist (even for a little)?
- 14y ago

kghose 14y ago

This is very cool and interesting and HN worthy. I second all the notes here about vibrotactile displays. Please also read up about how people are developing devices that substitute somato sensation (touch) for vision for blind people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_substitution

mindslight 14y ago

> I don't know if it's legal to put a capacitor behind LM1117 regulator. Oh gosh yes. By default you want at least a 0.1uF ceramic close to the output of a regulator, and the additional 100uF electrolytic is good. Then since it's a one-off and not worth worrying about, I'd put another 0.1uF close to the input of the regulator, and another 100uF across the battery. And if you're still having problems at that point, possibly a small resistor in series with the buzzer to limit its inrush current. You could also replace the mechanical buzzer with a piezo buzzer (or piezo speaker and generate tones with the avr). (PS if you're stocking up, you might as well opt for 1uF ceramics and "low ESR" electrolytics for these purposes)

majke 14y ago
Thanks for the comment! The one capacitor I put seems to be enough for my needs for now :) But it's great to hear what's the correct thing. > I'd put another 0.1uF close to the input of the regulator, and another 100uF across the battery. Interesting. I (naively) thought that a capacitor near a LiPo battery is illegal as you're not allowed to charge the battery directly. I thought when the battery power drops a capacitor will be doing exactly that. Can you explain why that's untrue? Update: in other words: What's the difference between putting a capacitor near the battery and "charging"?
- mindslight 14y ago
  Well I'll just first disclaim that I don't have any design experience with Li-Po batteries, although reading about them I don't see any odd requirements. The guideline to not "charge them directly" is in contrast to say lead-acid batteries, which you can simply hook up to an appropriate voltage supply and let them sit indefinitely ("trickle charging"). To the extent that you need to worry about it, the voltage on the two will be the same. The battery power only drops as you're drawing current. The point of the capacitor is to smooth out changes to the load by supplying current "first". Your capacitor will never get "more" charged than the battery somehow. The main difference versus "charging" is that you have no external energy source. From a slightly more advanced perspective, the reason for the capacitor is to smooth out the (possibly bidirectional!) transient loads on the battery. It's quite possible that your "inductive buzzer" (depending on how it's driven) is actually backfeeding a little current through the arduino and onto the supply rails. Your battery will never be overcharged this way because any such energy came from the battery itself, but smoothing out the spikes with a capacitor eases the stress on the battery. In fact, I'd be surprised if the arduino board didn't have a decent-sized capacitor immediately on its supply lines, and this is part of the reason.

cloudwalking 14y ago

Wouldn't it be easier to superglue a magnet to your pinky?

iamdann 14y ago
Completely different sensations.
joshu 14y ago
Exactly! I always wondered why nobody tried this. Although I must admit - I grew up at a time when magnets were anathema to using computers, and I remain resistant to having magnets anywhere near my work area.

ktizo 14y ago

If a three axis magnetometer was used in conjunction with electrical nerve stimulation on multiple sites, you could have the full range of compass heading, local magnetic field density and ac field sensing. Which would be cool. This has probably already been covered by the NASA Human Systems Integration Division, so it might be worth having a dig through some of their stuff - http://hsi.arc.nasa.gov/index.php http://hsi.arc.nasa.gov/index.php I think it was some of them who are working on the subvocalisation stuff - http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2004/subvocal/subvocal.html http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2004/subvocal... - which is basically cyborg telepathy, near as dammit.

seanx 14y ago

Could you do this with a high strength magnetic ring?

iamdann 14y ago
As someone with the actual implant, I'd say no. Think of it this way, people have been wearing magnetic body jewelry as an alternative to piercings for decades. Sensing magnetic fields has never been associated with magnetic jewelry. The same way that holding a buckyball between two fingers close to a fan doesn't really create an unusual or striking response. There's something unique about the implant that can't be replicated in other ways. I mean, I haven't tried this external device, but the above is my response to questions about magnetic rings, nail polish, earrings, etc.

lukifer 14y ago

We're all cyborgs already: http://abstrusegoose.com/171 http://abstrusegoose.com/171 :) Cool project and a good read, thanks.

losethos 14y ago

so you can do time travel, too, huh? God says... C:\Text\YANKEE.TXT rue?" "Part of it is." "Not all, then, not all! What part is true?" "That that spirit with the Russian name has put his spell upon the well." "God's wounds, then are we ruined!" "Possibly." "But not certainly? Ye mean, not certainly?" "That is it." "Wherefore, ye also mean that when he saith none can break the spell--" "Yes, when he says that, he says what isn't necessarily true. There are conditions under which an effort to break it may have some chance--that is, some small

praveenpenumaka 14y ago

Cant we do this with mobile application? Mobile vibrating when there is increased magnetic field or something like that. Someone can check with sample app?

graue 14y ago

This is very cool, but I was surprised to see what seems like an obvious bug in your code. In the buzzer() function, it looks like you were trying to use "buzz_prev" to optimize away extra writes of 0 when no magnetic field is detected. However, buzz_prev will never get reset because line 57, which sets it to zero, will only be executed if (!buzz_prev), that is, if it's already zero.

majke 14y ago
Nice catch Sir! You're right, line 57 should be below 55. Fix: https://github.com/majek/dump/commit/7e9edeba2ead00a24341ec5fa32d28326e7dd55e https://github.com/majek/dump/commit/7e9edeba2ead00a24341ec5...

ginko 14y ago

Everyone wearing corrective glasses can be considered a cyborg.

token78 14y ago

There is one technological invention, completely 'unnatural' and born of human artifice, which each and everybody on Hacker News has internalised so deeply that we take it for granted almost as natural thing. It extends our capacity for information gathering and exchange, and has extended human memory monumentally. I'm talking about writing. Yeah, I admit it - I've drunk the Marshall McLuhan Kool-Aid. But think about it. You have ancestors for whom writing was an alien and unfamiliar information technology. And yet you can look at a page and suddenly be drawn into the sensations, ideas and experiences of men and women who died generations and continents away. All thanks to a technology that we have so thoroughly integrated with our experience of being alive and human that it's become second nature. You're a cyborg already. EDIT: Wow, I'm a little surprised I'm the first person to mention McLuhan? For those that don't know, he's the bloke that coined the term 'cybernetics'.