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I'm not talking about specific rich individuals (e.g. top 1000). I'm talking about rich people in general, e.g. top 10% furthermore I am only talking about inco

I'm not talking about specific rich individuals (e.g. top 1000). I'm talking about rich people in general, e.g. top 10% furthermore I am only talking about income tax, which is why I gave my context link.

lenerdenator 2y ago
Then you're lowballing, perhaps as a rhetorical device.
- amazingamazing 2y ago
  lowballing in what sense?
  - myrmidon 2y ago
    When people are talking about "the rich not paying their fair share", it is typically about the income class that makes most of the income not from "working", but from "owning" (capital gains, profit from owned assets). This is exacerbated by the fact that those kinds of incomes are often taxed less (percentage-wise) than peoples salaries. The cutoff for this is probably more in the top 1 to 0.1% range. This notion is not something that only poor communists subscribe to (out of selfinterest/delusion), see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffett_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffett_Rule
    - amazingamazing 2y ago
      this doesn't really make any sense. forget billionaries - look at the bottom 50% compared to the cut off to be in the top 10%. The person in the top 10% making a mere 180K pays an order of magnitude more taxes. of course, this is how a progressive tax system works inevitably. thus, my point and question is, how are rich people not already paying their fair share? by all data available with respect to [income taxes], they already pay a ton, no?
      - lostlogin 2y ago
        > forget billionaries That’s a key part of the argument though. Once someone reaches a certain level of wealth, should it get easier or harder to keep growing that wealth? I say this in terms of value to society. Is having some extremely, extremely rich individuals of value to the US?
        amazingamazing 2y ago
        > I say this in terms of value to society. Is having some extremely, extremely rich individuals of value to the US? yes. restated, is it good or bad that the USA has rich people? clearly it is good. if it were bad, then there would be evidence that countries with no rich people are better, but there is no such evidence.
        lenerdenator 2y ago
        > yes. restated, is it good or bad that the USA has rich people? clearly it is good. if it were bad, then there would be evidence that countries with no rich people are better, but there is no such evidence. That's not the question. Having rich people is one thing; having extremely, extremely rich people is another. We're talking about people that are worth the entire annual economic output of entire medium-sized metropolitan areas of the US and Canada, not the guy you knew from college who became director of sales at a software vendor and lives in a neighborhood with a golf course.
        alexanderchr 2y ago
        Obviously does not follow. It’s like saying that torrential rains that flood your home are actually a good thing, because having no rain at all would be worse. Most things are best in moderation.
        lostlogin 2y ago
        Let’s restate your argument. If a country only had Musks, how well would it work?
      - myrmidon 2y ago

lenerdenator 2y ago

Then you're lowballing, perhaps as a rhetorical device.

amazingamazing 2y ago
lowballing in what sense?
- myrmidon 2y ago
  When people are talking about "the rich not paying their fair share", it is typically about the income class that makes most of the income not from "working", but from "owning" (capital gains, profit from owned assets). This is exacerbated by the fact that those kinds of incomes are often taxed less (percentage-wise) than peoples salaries. The cutoff for this is probably more in the top 1 to 0.1% range. This notion is not something that only poor communists subscribe to (out of selfinterest/delusion), see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffett_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffett_Rule
  - amazingamazing 2y ago
    this doesn't really make any sense. forget billionaries - look at the bottom 50% compared to the cut off to be in the top 10%. The person in the top 10% making a mere 180K pays an order of magnitude more taxes. of course, this is how a progressive tax system works inevitably. thus, my point and question is, how are rich people not already paying their fair share? by all data available with respect to [income taxes], they already pay a ton, no?
    - lostlogin 2y ago
      > forget billionaries That’s a key part of the argument though. Once someone reaches a certain level of wealth, should it get easier or harder to keep growing that wealth? I say this in terms of value to society. Is having some extremely, extremely rich individuals of value to the US?
      - amazingamazing 2y ago
        > I say this in terms of value to society. Is having some extremely, extremely rich individuals of value to the US? yes. restated, is it good or bad that the USA has rich people? clearly it is good. if it were bad, then there would be evidence that countries with no rich people are better, but there is no such evidence.
        lenerdenator 2y ago
        > yes. restated, is it good or bad that the USA has rich people? clearly it is good. if it were bad, then there would be evidence that countries with no rich people are better, but there is no such evidence. That's not the question. Having rich people is one thing; having extremely, extremely rich people is another. We're talking about people that are worth the entire annual economic output of entire medium-sized metropolitan areas of the US and Canada, not the guy you knew from college who became director of sales at a software vendor and lives in a neighborhood with a golf course.
        alexanderchr 2y ago
        Obviously does not follow. It’s like saying that torrential rains that flood your home are actually a good thing, because having no rain at all would be worse. Most things are best in moderation.
        lostlogin 2y ago
        Let’s restate your argument. If a country only had Musks, how well would it work?
    - myrmidon 2y ago