5 ms·

i have to pay €950 for an apartment 30km from the CBD, why on earth does this guy have the right to only pay €700 to live bang in the middle of the CBD?

bell-cot 2y ago
You're paying (my guess) a market rate, which scales decently. He's getting a "fame du jour" special deal - which for-sure does not.
- pestatije 2y ago
  whatever the deal hes getting, why is it on my and everybody elses taxes?
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    Municipal politics often resembles a Reality TV wheel-squeaking contest. He worked to get on the show, played, and won a modest prize. Was it worth all his time & hassle? I'll guess "no", but I don't follow Spanish politics. Meanwhile, a wide variety of Spanish lotteries offer you chances to win vastly larger prizes, at taxpayer expense, with a quick & easy ticket purchase. Have you bought one? (/s?)
    - miguelxt 2y ago
      What do you mean at taxpayer expense? Spanish's National Lottery is one of the few State-run enterprises that returns real money to the taxpayer.
      - bell-cot 2y ago
        Net, yes. But inside that Lottery - ticket sales are income, and collected winnings are expenses. And I'd bet that unclaimed winnings end back up in the government's coffers - therefor, you claiming your winnings means that you benefit at taxpayer expense.
  - aziaziazi 2y ago
    I hate seeing my taxes wasted on roads maintenance, airports and medical facilities for the ones that didn’t bother having a physical activity or eating healthy during they life (the list can go very long). Don’t take me wrong, I’m happy to have roads and hospitals but not at that scale. I pay vastly more for those than what I benefit from. On the other hand I’m very happy to freely use the new cycling roads and benefit from a somewhat stable and secure society where the chances are low to encounter a furious outcast that want to rob me.
    - luckylion 2y ago
      You've misunderstood the point. Roads, airports, medical facilities are shared infrastructure. Private living arrangements are not.
      - aziaziazi 2y ago
        Fair point. I was about to respond: [One could see some similitudes in the occupation of a rented place for some years and the occupation of ~5m2 on the road for some seconds. Also public hospitals are often congested so they are shared but you have to wait... I admit you wait shorter than for an appartement] However as I considered that and what you wrote, I'm not sure about it. I post it for posterity.
guax 2y ago
Maybe the best sentiment is to ask why do you have to pay 950 and not why some small minority can get a better deal.
titanomachy 2y ago
30km? And you commute to Barcelona?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Ambolia 2y ago
It's a publicity stunt to score points while solving nothing. Same issue in Spain with squatters, it allows the goverment to confront tenants with landlords while the goverment does nothing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
ljm 2y ago
Your problem still isn’t with the guy paying lower rent, but scarcity amplified by companies repurposing residential housing stock as tourist accommodation. You too could live right in the city at an affordable rate if AirBnB and property owners didn’t force out the locals to make a quick buck on holiday makers.
- glompers 2y ago
  The article says that renting residential units for short terms (of less than 32 days) is already banned citywide in Barcelona. Tourists can stay in hotels.
- yes_really 2y ago
  No. It seems very clear that his problem is with the guy paying lower rent than him for a better apartment. If the subsidy is done by the government (though regulations, direct subsidy, rent-control, etc), and if he pays those taxes, then his feeling of injustice are perfectly valid. It's one thing for the government to take your money to feed people that are in need. It's another thing for the government to take your money to give someone living conditions better than your own!
- energy123 2y ago
  Out of all the misdiagnoses of the housing crisis, this is the one I appreciate the most due to its adjacency to the truth. By blaming AirBnB as the root cause, you're implicitly admitting that the problem is too little housing supply. Great. So how can you increase housing supply? Your solution would be to ban AirBnB, which frees up only less than two years worth of new housing stock, while simultaneously reducing tourism revenue. This is a temporary and non durable solution that solves none of the underlying problems that will lead to a lack of supply 5 or 10 years down the road. The durable solution is to increase housing starts by deregulation and financial incentives or public housing. If you double housing starts, in a decade you would have to ban more than five AirBnBs worth of houses to break even. This is the durable solution.
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    We fixate on the easiest things to fixate on, and it becomes an easily attacked effigy for the real problem. When I lived in Mexico City, my friends would complain about gringos causing an increase in rents when the places they wanted to live for cheap were populated almost entirely by every Mexican who makes more money than they do. Yet there was this implication that if you could somehow shut down gringo tourism, there would be no competition for living in the nice apartments in the nice neighborhoods. They would be desperate for your 2000 pesos or something.
motorest 2y ago
> i have to pay €950 for an apartment 30km from the CBD, why on earth does this guy have the right to only pay €700 to live bang in the middle of the CBD? You have to pay €950 for an apartment 30km away because the average rent in the city center is €2000. The average salary in Barcelona is €2800, whereas the average rent is €2000. Do you understand the problem? I mean, answer your own question. Why do you pay €950/month to live in the boonies? Would you pay €950/month to live 30km away if you could pay less than that to live closer to the city center?
- Xenoamorphous 2y ago
  But why would anyone be entitled to be in the center? Am I entitled to a €80k BMW too? The most desirable areas to live are not for the average salaries. Don’t get me wrong, I think housing is one of the most basic rights that every human being should have. That doesn’t mean rent should be as cheap in highly desirable areas as in not so desirable ones. If people are living around big populous cities due to work then make public transport good, cheap etc.
- jddj 2y ago
  This sounds like the market has reached equilibrium with the average dual income family paying 35% of their gross income on shelter. 35% is a touch high but not out of line with the 30%ish recommendations from banks/estate agents over the years. It might be an issue that the cost of the average 1br flat isn't attainable on a single average income. But I think we can see how we arrived here.
  - motorest 2y ago
    > This sounds like the market has reached equilibrium with the average dual income family paying 35% of their gross income on shelter. You need to redo your math. The effort rate is calculated taking into account all fixed monthly expenses, not just rent. By your own numbers, rent alone is already higher than the maximum admissible effort rate for a household with above average incomes. On top of this you still need to account for your actual cost of living. You're looking at a scenario where a household with an average or above average income has to endure a effort rate well above 40%-50% to afford living in Barcelona. To make matters worse, in Barcelona rents do not drop that much even if you start to entertain commutes of well over 2h/day. There's nothing healthy about it.
smikhanov 2y ago
But why not?

bell-cot 2y ago

You're paying (my guess) a market rate, which scales decently. He's getting a "fame du jour" special deal - which for-sure does not.

pestatije 2y ago
whatever the deal hes getting, why is it on my and everybody elses taxes?
- bell-cot 2y ago
  Municipal politics often resembles a Reality TV wheel-squeaking contest. He worked to get on the show, played, and won a modest prize. Was it worth all his time & hassle? I'll guess "no", but I don't follow Spanish politics. Meanwhile, a wide variety of Spanish lotteries offer you chances to win vastly larger prizes, at taxpayer expense, with a quick & easy ticket purchase. Have you bought one? (/s?)
  - miguelxt 2y ago
    What do you mean at taxpayer expense? Spanish's National Lottery is one of the few State-run enterprises that returns real money to the taxpayer.
    - bell-cot 2y ago
      Net, yes. But inside that Lottery - ticket sales are income, and collected winnings are expenses. And I'd bet that unclaimed winnings end back up in the government's coffers - therefor, you claiming your winnings means that you benefit at taxpayer expense.
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  I hate seeing my taxes wasted on roads maintenance, airports and medical facilities for the ones that didn’t bother having a physical activity or eating healthy during they life (the list can go very long). Don’t take me wrong, I’m happy to have roads and hospitals but not at that scale. I pay vastly more for those than what I benefit from. On the other hand I’m very happy to freely use the new cycling roads and benefit from a somewhat stable and secure society where the chances are low to encounter a furious outcast that want to rob me.
  - luckylion 2y ago
    You've misunderstood the point. Roads, airports, medical facilities are shared infrastructure. Private living arrangements are not.
    - aziaziazi 2y ago
      Fair point. I was about to respond: [One could see some similitudes in the occupation of a rented place for some years and the occupation of ~5m2 on the road for some seconds. Also public hospitals are often congested so they are shared but you have to wait... I admit you wait shorter than for an appartement] However as I considered that and what you wrote, I'm not sure about it. I post it for posterity.

guax 2y ago

Maybe the best sentiment is to ask why do you have to pay 950 and not why some small minority can get a better deal.

titanomachy 2y ago

30km? And you commute to Barcelona?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Ambolia 2y ago

It's a publicity stunt to score points while solving nothing. Same issue in Spain with squatters, it allows the goverment to confront tenants with landlords while the goverment does nothing.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

ljm 2y ago

Your problem still isn’t with the guy paying lower rent, but scarcity amplified by companies repurposing residential housing stock as tourist accommodation. You too could live right in the city at an affordable rate if AirBnB and property owners didn’t force out the locals to make a quick buck on holiday makers.

glompers 2y ago
The article says that renting residential units for short terms (of less than 32 days) is already banned citywide in Barcelona. Tourists can stay in hotels.
yes_really 2y ago
No. It seems very clear that his problem is with the guy paying lower rent than him for a better apartment. If the subsidy is done by the government (though regulations, direct subsidy, rent-control, etc), and if he pays those taxes, then his feeling of injustice are perfectly valid. It's one thing for the government to take your money to feed people that are in need. It's another thing for the government to take your money to give someone living conditions better than your own!
energy123 2y ago
Out of all the misdiagnoses of the housing crisis, this is the one I appreciate the most due to its adjacency to the truth. By blaming AirBnB as the root cause, you're implicitly admitting that the problem is too little housing supply. Great. So how can you increase housing supply? Your solution would be to ban AirBnB, which frees up only less than two years worth of new housing stock, while simultaneously reducing tourism revenue. This is a temporary and non durable solution that solves none of the underlying problems that will lead to a lack of supply 5 or 10 years down the road. The durable solution is to increase housing starts by deregulation and financial incentives or public housing. If you double housing starts, in a decade you would have to ban more than five AirBnBs worth of houses to break even. This is the durable solution.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  We fixate on the easiest things to fixate on, and it becomes an easily attacked effigy for the real problem. When I lived in Mexico City, my friends would complain about gringos causing an increase in rents when the places they wanted to live for cheap were populated almost entirely by every Mexican who makes more money than they do. Yet there was this implication that if you could somehow shut down gringo tourism, there would be no competition for living in the nice apartments in the nice neighborhoods. They would be desperate for your 2000 pesos or something.

motorest 2y ago

> i have to pay €950 for an apartment 30km from the CBD, why on earth does this guy have the right to only pay €700 to live bang in the middle of the CBD? You have to pay €950 for an apartment 30km away because the average rent in the city center is €2000. The average salary in Barcelona is €2800, whereas the average rent is €2000. Do you understand the problem? I mean, answer your own question. Why do you pay €950/month to live in the boonies? Would you pay €950/month to live 30km away if you could pay less than that to live closer to the city center?

Xenoamorphous 2y ago
But why would anyone be entitled to be in the center? Am I entitled to a €80k BMW too? The most desirable areas to live are not for the average salaries. Don’t get me wrong, I think housing is one of the most basic rights that every human being should have. That doesn’t mean rent should be as cheap in highly desirable areas as in not so desirable ones. If people are living around big populous cities due to work then make public transport good, cheap etc.
jddj 2y ago
This sounds like the market has reached equilibrium with the average dual income family paying 35% of their gross income on shelter. 35% is a touch high but not out of line with the 30%ish recommendations from banks/estate agents over the years. It might be an issue that the cost of the average 1br flat isn't attainable on a single average income. But I think we can see how we arrived here.
- motorest 2y ago
  > This sounds like the market has reached equilibrium with the average dual income family paying 35% of their gross income on shelter. You need to redo your math. The effort rate is calculated taking into account all fixed monthly expenses, not just rent. By your own numbers, rent alone is already higher than the maximum admissible effort rate for a household with above average incomes. On top of this you still need to account for your actual cost of living. You're looking at a scenario where a household with an average or above average income has to endure a effort rate well above 40%-50% to afford living in Barcelona. To make matters worse, in Barcelona rents do not drop that much even if you start to entertain commutes of well over 2h/day. There's nothing healthy about it.

smikhanov 2y ago

But why not?