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ChatGPT is literally generating billions in revenue. Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time. This lame HN trope of LLMs having no business model nee

ChatGPT is literally generating billions in revenue. Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time. This lame HN trope of LLMs having no business model needs to die.

Hamuko 2y ago
Revenue or profit? WeWork at a time also did billions in revenue.
- phillipcarter 2y ago
  WeWork trapped themselves into a real estate hole, selling services for less than they rented property for. OpenAI is currently in an explicit non-profit seeking mode using a technology that we have demonstrated 10-100x or greater decreases in compute to achieve the same outcomes. This is not a declaration that OpenAI will become wildly profitable. This is just me saying that these aren't comparable companies.
  - linuxftw 2y ago
    WeWork was a scam to enrich the founders of the company. They owned or had interests in many of the properties that WeWork leased from. I'm surprised no one was thrown in prison.
LorenDB 2y ago
OpenAI is losing money on their $200/mo (!!) Pro subscription[0]. [0]: https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/06/altman_gpt_profits/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/06/altman_gpt_profits/
- sebzim4500 2y ago
  But making money off their subscriptions in general. They lose it all training models and on R&D
  - mullingitover 2y ago
    I wonder how long it'll last. Just using myself as a demo customer: I canceled my subscription because Google AI Studio was doing more for me, and it's free. OpenAI is not really competitive at $20 a month anymore.
    - sebzim4500 2y ago
      Yeah not sure. I cancelled a while ago but I subscribed again once o1-preview came out and now o3-mini exists I still find it useful. Of course, they are clearly cooking something or they wouldn't have just published a benchmark in which they do badly.
latexr 2y ago
> ChatGPT is literally generating billions in revenue. It’s losing more billions than what it’s generating. Revenue does not equate profit. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/openai-sees-5-billion-loss-this-year-on-3point7-billion-in-revenue.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/openai-sees-5-billion-loss-t...
- spacebanana7 2y ago
  True, but presence of significant revenue is still promising. It's much better to have an "expensive compute" problem than a "nobody wants to pay for the product" problem.
  - latexr 2y ago
    > It's much better to have an "expensive compute" problem than a "nobody wants to pay for the product" problem. That is only true is your primary concern in life is personal wealth and you’re burning other people’s money.
    - spacebanana7 2y ago
      YouTube is an optimistic example. The bandwidth costs made it deeply loss making for a long time despite having loads of engagement and ad revenue. However over time they became more cost efficient at sending video over the internet and became profitable. This strategy obviously doesn't always work, with WeWork being the canonical example. But it's not guaranteed to fail either.
      - crocowhile 2y ago
        YouTube did not have competitors and certainly not open source competitors.
        sebzim4500 2y ago
        This is a bit before my time but I remember a bunch of competitors to YouTube. They just all sucked.
ben_w 2y ago
Lots of people dervive great value from things that are too easily reproduced to be directly profitable. Google gives everyone free access to a good spreadsheet tool, even though Microsoft Office exists. Web browsers are free, despite the value of the entire internet. Compilers are free, despite the value of all software collectively. LLMs being really valuable doesn't automatically mean anyone can get rich from them. I think everyone last year parroting "moat!" was cringe (like Altman of all people wouldn't know about this already, c'mon), but you do actually need something that other people don't have. I expect Altman's already got stuff in mind, but he's hardly the only one, and that means it's a game of "which multibillionaire with lots of experience building companies will win?", and that's hard for non-skilled normies (in this case incluing me) to guess.
crocowhile 2y ago
You are comparing apple with oranges. Cursor is not an LLM and yes, it has a business model. So does openrouter and million other applications that can switch API to the low bidder any moment.
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
What source(s) are there for cursor's growth rate/revenue ?
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Yeah I would be shocked to see that Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time by a good metric...
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  So, answering my own question, there is this. https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ Sounds legit.
KKKKkkkk1 2y ago
HN has turned into the Slashdot of the 2000s. No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame.
- jedberg 2y ago
  I suspect a lot of the active users on HN today don't remember Slashdot of 2000...
- fragmede 2y ago
  HN already had its ipod moment back in 2007. /.'s ipod moment was in 2001, not as longer before that as I would have guessed. Re: Dropbox, from a well known user. It didn't age well and we've been asked not to repeat it because it makes the author with connections to this site's operator look bad. > 1. For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 the controversy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27067281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27067281
giancarlostoro 2y ago
> Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time. I assume you're referring to this: https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ It went from 10M MRR to 100M

ChatGPT is literally generating billions in revenue. Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time. This lame HN trope of LLMs having no business model needs to die.

Hamuko 2y ago

Revenue or profit? WeWork at a time also did billions in revenue.

phillipcarter 2y ago
WeWork trapped themselves into a real estate hole, selling services for less than they rented property for. OpenAI is currently in an explicit non-profit seeking mode using a technology that we have demonstrated 10-100x or greater decreases in compute to achieve the same outcomes. This is not a declaration that OpenAI will become wildly profitable. This is just me saying that these aren't comparable companies.
- linuxftw 2y ago
  WeWork was a scam to enrich the founders of the company. They owned or had interests in many of the properties that WeWork leased from. I'm surprised no one was thrown in prison.

LorenDB 2y ago

OpenAI is losing money on their $200/mo (!!) Pro subscription[0]. [0]: https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/06/altman_gpt_profits/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/06/altman_gpt_profits/

sebzim4500 2y ago
But making money off their subscriptions in general. They lose it all training models and on R&D
- mullingitover 2y ago
  I wonder how long it'll last. Just using myself as a demo customer: I canceled my subscription because Google AI Studio was doing more for me, and it's free. OpenAI is not really competitive at $20 a month anymore.
  - sebzim4500 2y ago
    Yeah not sure. I cancelled a while ago but I subscribed again once o1-preview came out and now o3-mini exists I still find it useful. Of course, they are clearly cooking something or they wouldn't have just published a benchmark in which they do badly.

latexr 2y ago

> ChatGPT is literally generating billions in revenue. It’s losing more billions than what it’s generating. Revenue does not equate profit. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/openai-sees-5-billion-loss-this-year-on-3point7-billion-in-revenue.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/27/openai-sees-5-billion-loss-t...

spacebanana7 2y ago
True, but presence of significant revenue is still promising. It's much better to have an "expensive compute" problem than a "nobody wants to pay for the product" problem.
- latexr 2y ago
  > It's much better to have an "expensive compute" problem than a "nobody wants to pay for the product" problem. That is only true is your primary concern in life is personal wealth and you’re burning other people’s money.
  - spacebanana7 2y ago
    YouTube is an optimistic example. The bandwidth costs made it deeply loss making for a long time despite having loads of engagement and ad revenue. However over time they became more cost efficient at sending video over the internet and became profitable. This strategy obviously doesn't always work, with WeWork being the canonical example. But it's not guaranteed to fail either.
    - crocowhile 2y ago
      YouTube did not have competitors and certainly not open source competitors.
      - sebzim4500 2y ago
        This is a bit before my time but I remember a bunch of competitors to YouTube. They just all sucked.

ben_w 2y ago

Lots of people dervive great value from things that are too easily reproduced to be directly profitable. Google gives everyone free access to a good spreadsheet tool, even though Microsoft Office exists. Web browsers are free, despite the value of the entire internet. Compilers are free, despite the value of all software collectively. LLMs being really valuable doesn't automatically mean anyone can get rich from them. I think everyone last year parroting "moat!" was cringe (like Altman of all people wouldn't know about this already, c'mon), but you do actually need something that other people don't have. I expect Altman's already got stuff in mind, but he's hardly the only one, and that means it's a game of "which multibillionaire with lots of experience building companies will win?", and that's hard for non-skilled normies (in this case incluing me) to guess.

crocowhile 2y ago

You are comparing apple with oranges. Cursor is not an LLM and yes, it has a business model. So does openrouter and million other applications that can switch API to the low bidder any moment.

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago

What source(s) are there for cursor's growth rate/revenue ?

aprilthird2021 2y ago
Yeah I would be shocked to see that Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time by a good metric...
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
So, answering my own question, there is this. https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ Sounds legit.

KKKKkkkk1 2y ago

HN has turned into the Slashdot of the 2000s. No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame.

jedberg 2y ago
I suspect a lot of the active users on HN today don't remember Slashdot of 2000...
fragmede 2y ago
HN already had its ipod moment back in 2007. /.'s ipod moment was in 2001, not as longer before that as I would have guessed. Re: Dropbox, from a well known user. It didn't age well and we've been asked not to repeat it because it makes the author with connections to this site's operator look bad. > 1. For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 the controversy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27067281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27067281

giancarlostoro 2y ago

> Cursor is the fastest growing company of all time. I assume you're referring to this: https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ https://sacra.com/research/cursor-at-100m-arr/ It went from 10M MRR to 100M