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The cultural impact on childhood memory is interesting, but I have to say that the first paragraph was a bit off-putting, like it was written by someone who sho

The cultural impact on childhood memory is interesting, but I have to say that the first paragraph was a bit off-putting, like it was written by someone who should pay a bit more attention to the actual experience of their child in order to support them through these formative years instead of projecting their own adult frustrations on them: > Life must be great as a baby: to be fed and clothed and carried places in soft pouches, to be waved and smiled at by adoring strangers, to have the temerity to scream because food hasn’t arrived quickly enough, and then to throw it on the ground when it is displeasing. It’s a shame none of us recalls exactly how good we once had it. Babies are also almost completely unable to move around by themselves and are constantly frustrated by their lack of agency. They are extremely vulnerable and utterly dependent on the kindness of their parents and other older humans in their environment. They lack language so have no other way of communicating than screaming, which is often also a cause of great distress because of an inability to communicate a basic need (and on that note, even knowing what those needs are half of the time, given that the ability to make sense of ones own senses is still being developed). All of this while life is a nonstop series of first experiences, meaning that even the most mundane thing can (and often is) surprising, confusing and overwhelming, leading to a high need for reassurance, because being scared and wanting to make sure that you're really safe is honestly a very sensible reaction to have when you add all of those things up. I'm not saying life sucks for babies and toddlers, but as a parent of a two-year old myself it's pretty obvious to me that it's no walk in the park for them either.

KolmogorovComp 2y ago
It seemed obvious to me that part was tongue-in-cheek and not to be taken literally. It’s quite common to get readers to be ‘hooked’.
- vanderZwan 2y ago
  Perhaps. I've seen enough selfish parents voice this sentiment unironically to no longer give people that benefit of doubt.
  - the-grump 2y ago
    Not perhaps. It's 100% tongue-in-cheek.
    - bluebarbet 2y ago
      The word "perhaps" was an attempt to de-escalate a verbal confrontation that is unproductive because neither assertion is falsifiable.
      - the-grump 2y ago
        [flagged]
- danielscrubs 2y ago
  Assume the readers are dumb and in the meantime Huberman is in top 10 of most popular podcasts of all time. Journalists and their great education is the more likely culprit.
amanaplanacanal 2y ago
I'm pretty sure it was an attempt to be humorous.
tessierashpool9 2y ago
My guess is that the author was looking for a reason to use the term "temerity" and built the statement around this desire.
Clubber 2y ago
>Babies are also almost completely unable to move around by themselves and are constantly frustrated by their lack of agency. They are extremely vulnerable and utterly dependent on the kindness of their parents and other older humans in their environment. They lack language so have no other way of communicating than screaming, which is often also a cause of great distress because of an inability to communicate a basic need Funny, the same things happen when you become elderly, minus the screaming mostly.
- Yossarrian22 2y ago
  Having been to nursing homes and assisted living facilities I think that's mainly due to drugs.
  - hibikir 2y ago
    Yep, you'd be surprised by how many turn downright violent when unmedicated. Sometimes the violence is a big part of the reason why the family ended up having to send them to a nursing home.
    - ashoeafoot 2y ago
      Man, the nursing homes in the 90s germany, where dement SS-soldiers goto attack polish nurses and victims of the russian liberation ran from any nurse with the accent. Sometimes drugs are the only thing keeping a institution working.
- vanderZwan 2y ago
  > Funny, the same things happen when you become elderly, minus the screaming mostly. You just unlocked a memory of me reading "The Praise of Folly" in my teens for literature class and having my mind blown by the passage talking about that: > Yet abating from this, let us examine the case more narrowly. Who knows not that the first scene of infancy is far the most pleasant and delightsome? What then is it in children that makes us so kiss, hug, and play with them, and that the bloodiest enemy can scarce have the heart to hurt them; but their ingredients of innocence and Folly, of which nature out of providence did purposely compound and blend their tender infancy, that by a frank return of pleasure they might make some sort of amends for their parents' trouble, and give in caution as it were for the discharge of a future education; the next advance from childhood is youth, and how favourably is this dealt with; how kind, courteous, and respectful are all to it? and how ready to become serviceable upon all occasions? And whence reaps it this happiness? Whence indeed, but from me only, by whose procurement it is furnished with little of wisdom, and so with the less of disquiet? > And when once lads begin to grow up, and attempt to write man, their prettiness does then soon decay, their briskness flags, their humours stagnate, their jollity ceases, and their blood grows cold; and the farther they proceed in years, the more they grow backward in the enjoyment of themselves, till waspish old age comes on, a burden to itself as well as others, and that so heavy and oppressive, as none would bear the weight of, unless out of pity to their sufferings. > I again intervene, and lend a helping-hand, assisting them at a dead lift, in the same method the poets feign their gods to succour dying men, by transforming them into new creatures, which I do by bringing them back, after they have one foot in the grave, to their infancy again; so as there is a great deal of truth couched in that old proverb, Once an old man, and twice a child. > Now if any one be curious to understand what course I take to effect this alteration, my method is this: I bring them to my well of forgetfulness, (the fountain whereof is in the Fortunate Islands, and the river Lethe in hell but a small stream of it), and when they have there filled their bellies full, and washed down care, by the virtue and operation whereof they become young again. > Ay, but (say you) they merely dote, and play the fool: why yes, this is what I mean by growing young again: for what else is it to be a child than to be a fool and an idiot? It is the being such that makes that age so acceptable: for who does not esteem it somewhat ominous to see a boy endowed with the discretion of a man, and therefore for the curbing of too forward parts we have a disparaging proverb, Soon ripe, soon rotten? > And farther, who would keep company or have any thing to do with such an old blade, as, after the wear and harrowing of so many years should yet continue of as clear a head and sound a judgment as he had at any time been in his middle-age; and therefore it is great kindness of me that old men grow fools, since it is hereby only that they are freed from such vexations as would torment them if they were more wise: they can drink briskly, bear up stoutly, and lightly pass over such infirmities, as a far stronger constitution could scarce master. Sometime, with the old fellow in Plautus, they are brought back to their horn-book again, to learn to spell their fortune in love. (I obviously had to look it up, it's not like I had this memorized after a quarter century) I don't think Erasmus was right about the elderly growing blissfully happy with losing themselves to dementia, but then again: the book was satire, so we shouldn't expect Folly to be sincere in their arguments. [0] https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30201/30201-h/30201-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30201/30201-h/30201-h.htm
arkey 2y ago
That's some very good insight, often difficult to remember, but constantly having all of this in mind should definitely help a bit with managing the day to day of parenting.
apwell23 2y ago
> frustrated by their lack of agency uh.. how do you know this? doubt they even know what agency is or lack of it means.
- HumblyTossed 2y ago
  Observed behavior. It's not hard to recognize feelings in one's child if one pays close enough attention.
- rootlocus 2y ago
  I can tell you 100% my toddler gets extremely frustrated when he can't do something by himself. And it wasn't a brusque development, babies get frustrated when they want to turn on the side and can't. Also, they're extremely joyful when they finally manage to do it on their own, and they'll do it constantly. > doubt they even know what agency is I doubt some people know what epicaricacy is, but they do it anyway.
  - apwell23 2y ago
    comment wasn't talking about toddlers
    - rootlocus 2y ago
      That's why I mentioned it wasn't a brusque development, he acted the same way when he was a baby.
helboi4 2y ago
Yeah I always think being a baby or toddler must be endlessly frustrating. Imagine having absolutely no words to communicate your need and no idea how to do anything. I've said this before to parents of babies when I was a curious teenager and they thought I'm being silly but I'm sure it actually is stressful. At the end of the day we all go through it and nobody remembers it though, so it's not worth worrying about, it's just interesting to think about.
- bombcar 2y ago
  You can actually watch the progression as the baby realizes "Wait, that's a thing you can do" through "I wonder if I can do that" to "darn it, it's not working" and finally to "wow I did it".
crooked-v 2y ago
> They lack language so have no other way of communicating than screaming This is one of those good reasons to teach babies basic sign language (https://www.parents.com/what-is-baby-sign-language-5115901 https://www.parents.com/what-is-baby-sign-language-5115901).
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  Teaching my kids sign language was such an eye-opener. Prior to that I was totally oblivious to how smart babies are. I guess I assumed that they developed speech somewhat in time with their understanding of language. This couldn't be further from the truth though. There's a huge gap. Maybe I was especially clueless; I didn't grow up around babies, so this stuff might be obvious to people who did.
- sebasvisser 2y ago
  Also be sure to start at age 0, don’t wait until 6 months. Signing and talking to your baby from day 0 about what you are doing and why brings them so much comfort. And gives them the opportunity to develop so much more quickly and confidently.
  - vanderZwan 2y ago
    While we're sharing tips: it turns out that babies are born with a basic sense of hygiene and unlearn it because we leave them lying in their dirty diapers for too long, so they desensitize as a way to cope. If you put them on the pot from the start they will try to hold it in, and will try signal to you when they need to pee or poop because they know their needs will be met. So again it is about communication and paying attention. We did this and while our child still needed diapers, we only went through half the number we would have otherwise. Potty training was also a lot easier compared to the experiences of our friends.
__s 2y ago
Indeed, my father's earliest memory is when he was a baby & couldn't talk. His two aunts, quite young at the time, were joking around with him, having taken him out of the stroller & moving him around recklessly. He identified at that point he was a toy to them
- vanderZwan 2y ago
  Well, trauma-memories are supposedly the strongest ones, and that sounds like it would have been pretty traumatic at the time.
breakbread 2y ago
I remember listening to some NPR segment where a doctor/researcher said the first couple years is like a long acid trip. He was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it resonated with me.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gehwartzen 2y ago
All of what you describe is probably a big part of why we don’t remember. Not only has the though encoding/decoding process not been developed sufficiently to remember things in the way we do when older but even if we did those memories would probably be horrific for the most part.
- hadlock 2y ago
  i think encoding and decoding has a lot to do with it. we can watch a Disney movie and I'll ask my 4yo what it was about and she can name the main character but without prompting can't tell you where they went or why. Those phony sounding assignments of "what i did over summer vacation" don't seem so useless now. Right now we're getting lots of imaginative story fragments but missing a coherent narrative linking one sentence to the next. It's interesting watching them play with language and learn how stories work in real time
dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
>constantly frustrated by their lack of agency. Count me in.

KolmogorovComp 2y ago

It seemed obvious to me that part was tongue-in-cheek and not to be taken literally. It’s quite common to get readers to be ‘hooked’.

vanderZwan 2y ago
Perhaps. I've seen enough selfish parents voice this sentiment unironically to no longer give people that benefit of doubt.
- the-grump 2y ago
  Not perhaps. It's 100% tongue-in-cheek.
  - bluebarbet 2y ago
    The word "perhaps" was an attempt to de-escalate a verbal confrontation that is unproductive because neither assertion is falsifiable.
    - the-grump 2y ago
      [flagged]
danielscrubs 2y ago
Assume the readers are dumb and in the meantime Huberman is in top 10 of most popular podcasts of all time. Journalists and their great education is the more likely culprit.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago

I'm pretty sure it was an attempt to be humorous.

tessierashpool9 2y ago

My guess is that the author was looking for a reason to use the term "temerity" and built the statement around this desire.

Clubber 2y ago

>Babies are also almost completely unable to move around by themselves and are constantly frustrated by their lack of agency. They are extremely vulnerable and utterly dependent on the kindness of their parents and other older humans in their environment. They lack language so have no other way of communicating than screaming, which is often also a cause of great distress because of an inability to communicate a basic need Funny, the same things happen when you become elderly, minus the screaming mostly.

Yossarrian22 2y ago
Having been to nursing homes and assisted living facilities I think that's mainly due to drugs.
- hibikir 2y ago
  Yep, you'd be surprised by how many turn downright violent when unmedicated. Sometimes the violence is a big part of the reason why the family ended up having to send them to a nursing home.
  - ashoeafoot 2y ago
    Man, the nursing homes in the 90s germany, where dement SS-soldiers goto attack polish nurses and victims of the russian liberation ran from any nurse with the accent. Sometimes drugs are the only thing keeping a institution working.
vanderZwan 2y ago
> Funny, the same things happen when you become elderly, minus the screaming mostly. You just unlocked a memory of me reading "The Praise of Folly" in my teens for literature class and having my mind blown by the passage talking about that: > Yet abating from this, let us examine the case more narrowly. Who knows not that the first scene of infancy is far the most pleasant and delightsome? What then is it in children that makes us so kiss, hug, and play with them, and that the bloodiest enemy can scarce have the heart to hurt them; but their ingredients of innocence and Folly, of which nature out of providence did purposely compound and blend their tender infancy, that by a frank return of pleasure they might make some sort of amends for their parents' trouble, and give in caution as it were for the discharge of a future education; the next advance from childhood is youth, and how favourably is this dealt with; how kind, courteous, and respectful are all to it? and how ready to become serviceable upon all occasions? And whence reaps it this happiness? Whence indeed, but from me only, by whose procurement it is furnished with little of wisdom, and so with the less of disquiet? > And when once lads begin to grow up, and attempt to write man, their prettiness does then soon decay, their briskness flags, their humours stagnate, their jollity ceases, and their blood grows cold; and the farther they proceed in years, the more they grow backward in the enjoyment of themselves, till waspish old age comes on, a burden to itself as well as others, and that so heavy and oppressive, as none would bear the weight of, unless out of pity to their sufferings. > I again intervene, and lend a helping-hand, assisting them at a dead lift, in the same method the poets feign their gods to succour dying men, by transforming them into new creatures, which I do by bringing them back, after they have one foot in the grave, to their infancy again; so as there is a great deal of truth couched in that old proverb, Once an old man, and twice a child. > Now if any one be curious to understand what course I take to effect this alteration, my method is this: I bring them to my well of forgetfulness, (the fountain whereof is in the Fortunate Islands, and the river Lethe in hell but a small stream of it), and when they have there filled their bellies full, and washed down care, by the virtue and operation whereof they become young again. > Ay, but (say you) they merely dote, and play the fool: why yes, this is what I mean by growing young again: for what else is it to be a child than to be a fool and an idiot? It is the being such that makes that age so acceptable: for who does not esteem it somewhat ominous to see a boy endowed with the discretion of a man, and therefore for the curbing of too forward parts we have a disparaging proverb, Soon ripe, soon rotten? > And farther, who would keep company or have any thing to do with such an old blade, as, after the wear and harrowing of so many years should yet continue of as clear a head and sound a judgment as he had at any time been in his middle-age; and therefore it is great kindness of me that old men grow fools, since it is hereby only that they are freed from such vexations as would torment them if they were more wise: they can drink briskly, bear up stoutly, and lightly pass over such infirmities, as a far stronger constitution could scarce master. Sometime, with the old fellow in Plautus, they are brought back to their horn-book again, to learn to spell their fortune in love. (I obviously had to look it up, it's not like I had this memorized after a quarter century) I don't think Erasmus was right about the elderly growing blissfully happy with losing themselves to dementia, but then again: the book was satire, so we shouldn't expect Folly to be sincere in their arguments. [0] https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30201/30201-h/30201-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30201/30201-h/30201-h.htm

arkey 2y ago

That's some very good insight, often difficult to remember, but constantly having all of this in mind should definitely help a bit with managing the day to day of parenting.

apwell23 2y ago

> frustrated by their lack of agency uh.. how do you know this? doubt they even know what agency is or lack of it means.

HumblyTossed 2y ago
Observed behavior. It's not hard to recognize feelings in one's child if one pays close enough attention.
rootlocus 2y ago
I can tell you 100% my toddler gets extremely frustrated when he can't do something by himself. And it wasn't a brusque development, babies get frustrated when they want to turn on the side and can't. Also, they're extremely joyful when they finally manage to do it on their own, and they'll do it constantly. > doubt they even know what agency is I doubt some people know what epicaricacy is, but they do it anyway.
- apwell23 2y ago
  comment wasn't talking about toddlers
  - rootlocus 2y ago
    That's why I mentioned it wasn't a brusque development, he acted the same way when he was a baby.

helboi4 2y ago

Yeah I always think being a baby or toddler must be endlessly frustrating. Imagine having absolutely no words to communicate your need and no idea how to do anything. I've said this before to parents of babies when I was a curious teenager and they thought I'm being silly but I'm sure it actually is stressful. At the end of the day we all go through it and nobody remembers it though, so it's not worth worrying about, it's just interesting to think about.

bombcar 2y ago
You can actually watch the progression as the baby realizes "Wait, that's a thing you can do" through "I wonder if I can do that" to "darn it, it's not working" and finally to "wow I did it".

crooked-v 2y ago

> They lack language so have no other way of communicating than screaming This is one of those good reasons to teach babies basic sign language (https://www.parents.com/what-is-baby-sign-language-5115901 https://www.parents.com/what-is-baby-sign-language-5115901).

steve_adams_86 2y ago
Teaching my kids sign language was such an eye-opener. Prior to that I was totally oblivious to how smart babies are. I guess I assumed that they developed speech somewhat in time with their understanding of language. This couldn't be further from the truth though. There's a huge gap. Maybe I was especially clueless; I didn't grow up around babies, so this stuff might be obvious to people who did.
sebasvisser 2y ago
Also be sure to start at age 0, don’t wait until 6 months. Signing and talking to your baby from day 0 about what you are doing and why brings them so much comfort. And gives them the opportunity to develop so much more quickly and confidently.
- vanderZwan 2y ago
  While we're sharing tips: it turns out that babies are born with a basic sense of hygiene and unlearn it because we leave them lying in their dirty diapers for too long, so they desensitize as a way to cope. If you put them on the pot from the start they will try to hold it in, and will try signal to you when they need to pee or poop because they know their needs will be met. So again it is about communication and paying attention. We did this and while our child still needed diapers, we only went through half the number we would have otherwise. Potty training was also a lot easier compared to the experiences of our friends.

__s 2y ago

Indeed, my father's earliest memory is when he was a baby & couldn't talk. His two aunts, quite young at the time, were joking around with him, having taken him out of the stroller & moving him around recklessly. He identified at that point he was a toy to them

vanderZwan 2y ago
Well, trauma-memories are supposedly the strongest ones, and that sounds like it would have been pretty traumatic at the time.

breakbread 2y ago

I remember listening to some NPR segment where a doctor/researcher said the first couple years is like a long acid trip. He was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it resonated with me.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

gehwartzen 2y ago

All of what you describe is probably a big part of why we don’t remember. Not only has the though encoding/decoding process not been developed sufficiently to remember things in the way we do when older but even if we did those memories would probably be horrific for the most part.

hadlock 2y ago
i think encoding and decoding has a lot to do with it. we can watch a Disney movie and I'll ask my 4yo what it was about and she can name the main character but without prompting can't tell you where they went or why. Those phony sounding assignments of "what i did over summer vacation" don't seem so useless now. Right now we're getting lots of imaginative story fragments but missing a coherent narrative linking one sentence to the next. It's interesting watching them play with language and learn how stories work in real time

dennis_jeeves2 2y ago

>constantly frustrated by their lack of agency. Count me in.