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A lot of people seem to be misreading the article as saying that goths are the 'cookie cutter counterculture' that he's accusing st vincent of calling her 'othe

by NikkiA 2y ago

A lot of people seem to be misreading the article as saying that goths are the 'cookie cutter counterculture' that he's accusing st vincent of calling her 'other freaks', but that's not what the article states, the example of goths is to highlight an actual counterculture that is not determined by NYU think tanks, and that they are the example you should look to for how your society treats actual freethinking. Some will, no doubt, thereafter argue that goths all dress/look the same and thus can't be actually free thinking, but that would require not having a clue about goths or that their expression of being goth tends to look similar because 'the aesthetic' is the defining aspect, but even within that aesthetic there is quite a wide variety of styles and looks that some people will not even consider to be a 'goth'.

dintech 2y ago
“You’re unique, just like everyone else”
bilbo0s 2y ago
the example of goths is to highlight an actual counterculture that is not determined by NYU think tanks, and that they are the example you should look to for how your society treats actual freethinking. Think about what you just said there. How much "freethinking", is going on in either case if they are both demanding you look to them to determine how society treats, um, "freethinking"? Shades of "People's Front of Judea" extolling the unauthentic nature of the "Judean People's Front".
- Spivak 2y ago
  Because that's not what being goth is about which is good because it makes the author's metric one that isn't also a target. It's a somewhat well defined subculture that doesn't consider itself counterculture and so is more a fixed black obelisk than something positioned in opposition to the current state of the world. So I think the author has a good idea, that The Goth Index is a good proxy for how well a community will tolerate other ideas outside the norm.
- hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
  > is going on in either case if they are both demanding you look to them to determine how society treats, um, "freethinking"? There is no demanding, the point is that as an outsider you can observe societies actual approach to freethinking by observing the groups within it and which of those are actually freethinking vs self-reinforcing group think.

by NikkiA 2y ago

dintech 2y ago

“You’re unique, just like everyone else”

bilbo0s 2y ago

the example of goths is to highlight an actual counterculture that is not determined by NYU think tanks, and that they are the example you should look to for how your society treats actual freethinking. Think about what you just said there. How much "freethinking", is going on in either case if they are both demanding you look to them to determine how society treats, um, "freethinking"? Shades of "People's Front of Judea" extolling the unauthentic nature of the "Judean People's Front".

Spivak 2y ago
Because that's not what being goth is about which is good because it makes the author's metric one that isn't also a target. It's a somewhat well defined subculture that doesn't consider itself counterculture and so is more a fixed black obelisk than something positioned in opposition to the current state of the world. So I think the author has a good idea, that The Goth Index is a good proxy for how well a community will tolerate other ideas outside the norm.
hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
> is going on in either case if they are both demanding you look to them to determine how society treats, um, "freethinking"? There is no demanding, the point is that as an outsider you can observe societies actual approach to freethinking by observing the groups within it and which of those are actually freethinking vs self-reinforcing group think.