3 ms·

The US will always have resources to support Israeli occupation of Palestine, but when it comes to defending the actual democracy in Ukraine against Russian occ

The US will always have resources to support Israeli occupation of Palestine, but when it comes to defending the actual democracy in Ukraine against Russian occupation - we all know the answer. And it isn't just the Trump administration. If Biden wanted Ukraine to win, the war would have ended in 2023.

invalidname 2y ago
Israel is a democracy. It also probably has nuclear weapons and doesn't need US support. However, without US support things would get much uglier. Unfortunately, your type of thinking led to this. US involvement forced Israel to withdraw unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 and take a hands off stance as Hamas kept building up its base and digging tunnels. Had Israel stopped it back then we wouldn't have had Oct 7th and Palestinians might have taken the Israeli offer for statehood. People often confuse appeasement and peace, they are opposites.
- karmakurtisaani 2y ago
  The problem with this conflict is that it's much more complicated than any simple explanation. There was a time when Netanyahu supported Hamas as a way to divide Palestine, perhaps he should not have done that? And don't even start with the expansion of settlements on West Bank.
  - invalidname 2y ago
    Pretty true. But I generally describe it as religious a*holes are crazy. Israel is actually mostly secular. The deep settlements are very religious in contrast to the rest. Hamas is just a religious suicide cult.
    - karmakurtisaani 2y ago
      In all fairness, if you are willing to distinguish "most" of Israel and the settlements, you should do the same for "most" Palestinians and Hamas (who seized power after winning the first election).
      - invalidname 2y ago
        I very specifically separated Hamas and didn't say Palestinians. I would argue that the biggest victim of Hamas are the Palestinian people.
- bookaway 2y ago
  >US involvement forced Israel to withdraw unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 Ah yes, history started in 2005. Let's talk post-2005 then. This was when Netanyahu, an elected leader of Israel, openly bragged about aiding and building up Hamas, a terrorist organization, in order to weaken the PLO's power. That is of course, until the chickens came home to roost. It would take a certain amount of delusion to claim that this was not the issue, but unoccupying a land unlawfully occupied was the problem.
slightwinder 2y ago
> If Biden wanted Ukraine to win, the war would have ended in 2023. How? Trump and his loyal reps sabotaged any attempt for serious help. Biden had to resort to tricks and pushing the boundaries to offer the best he had in that situation.
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  While this is true, I've also wondered if the US (and EU) strategic position was that we're better off trickling out support to Ukraine so they can continue to keep Russia occupied and bleeding, rather than give a level of support that would actually end the conflict.

invalidname 2y ago

Israel is a democracy. It also probably has nuclear weapons and doesn't need US support. However, without US support things would get much uglier. Unfortunately, your type of thinking led to this. US involvement forced Israel to withdraw unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 and take a hands off stance as Hamas kept building up its base and digging tunnels. Had Israel stopped it back then we wouldn't have had Oct 7th and Palestinians might have taken the Israeli offer for statehood. People often confuse appeasement and peace, they are opposites.

karmakurtisaani 2y ago
The problem with this conflict is that it's much more complicated than any simple explanation. There was a time when Netanyahu supported Hamas as a way to divide Palestine, perhaps he should not have done that? And don't even start with the expansion of settlements on West Bank.
- invalidname 2y ago
  Pretty true. But I generally describe it as religious a*holes are crazy. Israel is actually mostly secular. The deep settlements are very religious in contrast to the rest. Hamas is just a religious suicide cult.
  - karmakurtisaani 2y ago
    In all fairness, if you are willing to distinguish "most" of Israel and the settlements, you should do the same for "most" Palestinians and Hamas (who seized power after winning the first election).
    - invalidname 2y ago
      I very specifically separated Hamas and didn't say Palestinians. I would argue that the biggest victim of Hamas are the Palestinian people.
bookaway 2y ago
>US involvement forced Israel to withdraw unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 Ah yes, history started in 2005. Let's talk post-2005 then. This was when Netanyahu, an elected leader of Israel, openly bragged about aiding and building up Hamas, a terrorist organization, in order to weaken the PLO's power. That is of course, until the chickens came home to roost. It would take a certain amount of delusion to claim that this was not the issue, but unoccupying a land unlawfully occupied was the problem.

slightwinder 2y ago

> If Biden wanted Ukraine to win, the war would have ended in 2023. How? Trump and his loyal reps sabotaged any attempt for serious help. Biden had to resort to tricks and pushing the boundaries to offer the best he had in that situation.

senordevnyc 2y ago
While this is true, I've also wondered if the US (and EU) strategic position was that we're better off trickling out support to Ukraine so they can continue to keep Russia occupied and bleeding, rather than give a level of support that would actually end the conflict.