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I can recommend 2 books for those who want to try to learn, but tbh i think a retreat is still required to reach them: 1. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Right-Concen

I can recommend 2 books for those who want to try to learn, but tbh i think a retreat is still required to reach them: 1. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Right-Concentration-Practical-Guide-Jhanas/dp/1611802695 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Right-Concentration-Practical-Guide... 2. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Bliss-Beyond-Meditators-Handbook/dp/0861712757 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindfulness-Bliss-Beyond-Meditators... Leigh Brasington reports that people he's spoken to who have studied kundalini yoga say the strong piti of the first jhana is the same as awakening the kundalini, so there's a bit of an "all roads lead to Rome" about these practices, which is encouraging. Both authors are on dharmaseed. Worth checking them out. They're both great teachers.

MonkeyIsNull 2y ago
Leigh is fantastic, I would also recommend Shaila Catherine's book `The Jhanas: A Practical Guide to Deep Meditative States`
- nprateem 2y ago
  Yes a good book, but I found Ajahn Brahm more accessible on the 'deep' jhana side.
nico 2y ago
Excellent There are some great conversations and resources on r/streamentry on Reddit as well Also this is a good video interview about the neuroscience of jhanas: https://www.youtube.com/live/G6UBx95TJbQ?si=32XvUfFwp2lVRYnm https://www.youtube.com/live/G6UBx95TJbQ?si=32XvUfFwp2lVRYnm
- v3ss0n 2y ago
  Jhana doesn't require to achieve first stage of stream entry - but it helps build concentration fast so in some Burmese Vipassana tradition, mediators are trained in to achieve just enough samahta and move to Vipassana. Just to the point of strong samadhi and then switch to Vipassana.(Mahasi) But in a few meditation center, first jhana needed to be attained to switch to Vipassana ( Thel inn guu and Paa Out traditions) . In one rare meditation tradition (Maung Htaung Myay Sinn), all four Rupa Jhana is trained till attained first and paractioners are given exercises and experiment with Jhana (45 days 8 hr a day meditation retreat with 30 days are full on Samahta and Jhana practices, then moves to Vipassana). Reasons for not going fully into jhana in traditions like mahasi is because Jhana practices have addicting qualities and paractioners will be dwelled unto that. And those with addictive personality would not let go of jhana and won't practice Vipassana.
abeppu 2y ago
But as Leigh Brasington spends a lot of time discussing, sources and teachers differ in their definitions of the jhanas. IIRC Brasington distinguishes between jhanas as described in the suttas (especially early suttas) and jhanas as described in the later commentaries like the Visuddhimagga, and he also gives a lot of attention to defining/translating the jhana factor terms in a somewhat idiosyncratic way. In this particular context, linking jhanas to specific EEG patterns, I think it's not entirely clear whether following another method would lead you to the same states visited by these Samatha Trust practitioners. I further think that Brasington and Ajahn Brahm differ meaningfully, in that Ajahn Brahm in his "preliminary" steps actually sets a pretty high bar.
- nprateem 2y ago
  Yeah exactly, Leigh goes for what's been termed jhana-lite while Ajahn Brahm basically says if you don't see a nimita it's not legit. Maybe he's right, maybe he's just keeping it more elitist, or just swayed by the fact he's living a monastic lifestyle unlike Brasington (except on retreat), so accesses deeper states. But Leigh is no slouch and says he's been to all jhanas countless times (but also says he's not awake so...). That's the distinction he makes from those two parts of the canon, and argues that jhana lite is what the Buddha taught. For me, either of them would be an improvement over my normal waking state, so I'm not too concerned. But yeah, it's good to be aware of both perspectives, that's why i suggested them.
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MonkeyIsNull 2y ago

Leigh is fantastic, I would also recommend Shaila Catherine's book `The Jhanas: A Practical Guide to Deep Meditative States`

nprateem 2y ago
Yes a good book, but I found Ajahn Brahm more accessible on the 'deep' jhana side.

nico 2y ago

Excellent There are some great conversations and resources on r/streamentry on Reddit as well Also this is a good video interview about the neuroscience of jhanas: https://www.youtube.com/live/G6UBx95TJbQ?si=32XvUfFwp2lVRYnm https://www.youtube.com/live/G6UBx95TJbQ?si=32XvUfFwp2lVRYnm

v3ss0n 2y ago
Jhana doesn't require to achieve first stage of stream entry - but it helps build concentration fast so in some Burmese Vipassana tradition, mediators are trained in to achieve just enough samahta and move to Vipassana. Just to the point of strong samadhi and then switch to Vipassana.(Mahasi) But in a few meditation center, first jhana needed to be attained to switch to Vipassana ( Thel inn guu and Paa Out traditions) . In one rare meditation tradition (Maung Htaung Myay Sinn), all four Rupa Jhana is trained till attained first and paractioners are given exercises and experiment with Jhana (45 days 8 hr a day meditation retreat with 30 days are full on Samahta and Jhana practices, then moves to Vipassana). Reasons for not going fully into jhana in traditions like mahasi is because Jhana practices have addicting qualities and paractioners will be dwelled unto that. And those with addictive personality would not let go of jhana and won't practice Vipassana.

abeppu 2y ago

But as Leigh Brasington spends a lot of time discussing, sources and teachers differ in their definitions of the jhanas. IIRC Brasington distinguishes between jhanas as described in the suttas (especially early suttas) and jhanas as described in the later commentaries like the Visuddhimagga, and he also gives a lot of attention to defining/translating the jhana factor terms in a somewhat idiosyncratic way. In this particular context, linking jhanas to specific EEG patterns, I think it's not entirely clear whether following another method would lead you to the same states visited by these Samatha Trust practitioners. I further think that Brasington and Ajahn Brahm differ meaningfully, in that Ajahn Brahm in his "preliminary" steps actually sets a pretty high bar.

nprateem 2y ago
Yeah exactly, Leigh goes for what's been termed jhana-lite while Ajahn Brahm basically says if you don't see a nimita it's not legit. Maybe he's right, maybe he's just keeping it more elitist, or just swayed by the fact he's living a monastic lifestyle unlike Brasington (except on retreat), so accesses deeper states. But Leigh is no slouch and says he's been to all jhanas countless times (but also says he's not awake so...). That's the distinction he makes from those two parts of the canon, and argues that jhana lite is what the Buddha taught. For me, either of them would be an improvement over my normal waking state, so I'm not too concerned. But yeah, it's good to be aware of both perspectives, that's why i suggested them.

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