4 ms·

Nope, actually, I didn't even get a downvote for that comment -- I noticed the site slowed down not long after posting it, so I looked at the thread with anothe

Nope, actually, I didn't even get a downvote for that comment -- I noticed the site slowed down not long after posting it, so I looked at the thread with another browser, it was fast as ever and my comment didn't show up = slow+hellbanned. The comment was still at 1 though, no downvote. Not even one. Plus, the account is still at 12 karma: http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hopefully http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hopefully The comment in question, the "Heh.", is gone -- and so is the comment it was a response to, something about Chomsky being about politics, not science, even more flamebaity than my "heh." Not that it matters. It's their site: they can do what they want, I can try to get around it until I get bored of that. No hard feelings, but also not a whole lot respect. > "have you moderated a forum before and dealt with abusive trolls who keep coming back?" Have you ever been censored for disagreeing? Did that make you a.) more or b.) less of a pain in the ass? But actually, I just make a new account when I want to speak my mind on something, more often than not it's offering a correction or a link. So yeah, I keep coming back. And why not. You can't just define anyone who gets banned as troll, spammer, or otherwise malicious. That's not what those words mean.

kstenerud 14y ago
That account hasn't been hellbanned. If it were, ALL of the comments for that account would be invisible, and would only show up if someone turned on "showdead" in their profile page. The site slows down all the time. Once again, that doesn't automatically mean hellban. Most likely the system just lost that part of the thread. On a big site like this, performance is usually more important than data integrity, so the odd loss of comments is considered acceptable.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Jach 14y ago
  I'm very sure hellbanning doesn't affect comments prior to the ban--do you know something I don't?--but when new comments by that user are posted they are instantly marked dead. The slowdown is part of the hellban, the whole point is to make the site unpleasant so that the user leaves instead of coming back to harass. With the user believing the site is slow as tar and no one responding to them, it's quite effective. The downside is that it loses its effectiveness as it becomes public knowledge.
  - kstenerud 14y ago
    Interesting... I thought they did affect all prior comments. My mistake. He has indeed been hellbanned.
    - kmfrk 14y ago
      And as your comments show, the opacity of the rules and automated moderation is a problem with the way HN is run.
      - hollerith 14y ago
        It's a problem from the point of view of a writer wishing to ensure that his writings will be read. From the point of view of a reader, however, having information about what will likely get moderated be scattered rather than gathered in one place decreases a reader's exposure to text written by people who have not read a lot of comment sections.
Jach 14y ago
Here's the comment in question you replied to. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4291948 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4291948 In order to see your own, you have to turn on "show dead" in your profile. But fair enough. I can imagine a moderator seeing your comment show up at http://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments http://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments then either reflexively banning or seeing your karma is sub-100 before doing so. > Have you ever been censored for disagreeing? Are you saying your "heh" was disagreement? In any case, yes, and it makes me shrug--it doesn't affect my pain-in-the-ass attribute. If I want my opinion online and google-able, I have places to put it where it won't be censored. If I want to debate, I've found HN is useful for quite a lot of subjects but still shies from those which pretty much everywhere with a karma system shies from (so that includes academia)--HN is nevertheless fairly tolerant if you have a coherent point to make, at least for a while. Even moldbug (http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=moldbug http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=moldbug) lasted for quite a while with all his controversy before he got hellbanned. His case of banning is one of several I strongly disagree with, but that's not enough to discount the entire concept of hellbanning. Of course it's not a perfect system--e.g. it'd be nice if HN users with >10k karma could reverse one.

kstenerud 14y ago

That account hasn't been hellbanned. If it were, ALL of the comments for that account would be invisible, and would only show up if someone turned on "showdead" in their profile page. The site slows down all the time. Once again, that doesn't automatically mean hellban. Most likely the system just lost that part of the thread. On a big site like this, performance is usually more important than data integrity, so the odd loss of comments is considered acceptable.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Jach 14y ago
I'm very sure hellbanning doesn't affect comments prior to the ban--do you know something I don't?--but when new comments by that user are posted they are instantly marked dead. The slowdown is part of the hellban, the whole point is to make the site unpleasant so that the user leaves instead of coming back to harass. With the user believing the site is slow as tar and no one responding to them, it's quite effective. The downside is that it loses its effectiveness as it becomes public knowledge.
- kstenerud 14y ago
  Interesting... I thought they did affect all prior comments. My mistake. He has indeed been hellbanned.
  - kmfrk 14y ago
    And as your comments show, the opacity of the rules and automated moderation is a problem with the way HN is run.
    - hollerith 14y ago
      It's a problem from the point of view of a writer wishing to ensure that his writings will be read. From the point of view of a reader, however, having information about what will likely get moderated be scattered rather than gathered in one place decreases a reader's exposure to text written by people who have not read a lot of comment sections.

Jach 14y ago

Here's the comment in question you replied to. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4291948 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4291948 In order to see your own, you have to turn on "show dead" in your profile. But fair enough. I can imagine a moderator seeing your comment show up at http://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments http://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments then either reflexively banning or seeing your karma is sub-100 before doing so. > Have you ever been censored for disagreeing? Are you saying your "heh" was disagreement? In any case, yes, and it makes me shrug--it doesn't affect my pain-in-the-ass attribute. If I want my opinion online and google-able, I have places to put it where it won't be censored. If I want to debate, I've found HN is useful for quite a lot of subjects but still shies from those which pretty much everywhere with a karma system shies from (so that includes academia)--HN is nevertheless fairly tolerant if you have a coherent point to make, at least for a while. Even moldbug (http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=moldbug http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=moldbug) lasted for quite a while with all his controversy before he got hellbanned. His case of banning is one of several I strongly disagree with, but that's not enough to discount the entire concept of hellbanning. Of course it's not a perfect system--e.g. it'd be nice if HN users with >10k karma could reverse one.