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An interesting consideration next time you balk at the price of a tradesman; or, why the plumber charges $300 to connect a washer in a few minutes when anyone c

An interesting consideration next time you balk at the price of a tradesman; or, why the plumber charges $300 to connect a washer in a few minutes when anyone can do it. $295 of that is knowing to drill the hole in the drain.

normie3000 2y ago
Having connected my own washer recently, I'm terrified to ask... what hole in the drain?!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bfdm 2y ago
  Same. Thankfully, the post explains it as needing to drill open the PVC drain pipe under a sink where the washer drain pipe connects, inside a pre-formed attachment point. See "Solution 5" through "Solution 6". If your washer is draining and working, there's no latent issue to worry about.
- yuliyp 2y ago
  The one mentioned at the very end: the drain pipe the washer's drain connected to had a PVC cover that needed to be drilled/punched out (since if a washer wasn't connected it'd be a hole in that drain!). If you're replacing another washer, it was probably already punched out.
  - stavros 2y ago
    Why wasn't there just a connector with a cap?
    - consp 2y ago
      Pvc is welded/glued. I would have installed at least a hose clamp on this thing and would never rely on friction to keep it in place.
    - dmurray 2y ago
      Even without a cap, gravity "should" prevent the drain leaking - the connection to the hose is some height above where it joins the U-trap. If the drain backs up and the pressure is high enough to force water out, it might be enough to pop any screwed cap too.
    - aargh_aargh 2y ago
      It's cheaper to make it without a hole than add a separate component and screw threads on both components. After all, you will drill the hole zero or one time, as needed.
    - addandsubtract 2y ago
      Because Ikea.
- PeterStuer 2y ago
  Most PVC under sink siffons have a preformed connection point where most people connect the dishwasher's hose. The ones I encountered had a tapered pipe point for several diameter drains. You saw off to the matching diameter of your hose. Often you would also put on a flowback protection valve so dirty water from e.g. draining a full sink would not get into to hose of your appliance.
kmoser 2y ago
Presumably a tradesman has knowledge and experience with these blockers, which for them should be largely "known unknowns" and easy to fix at that since they have all the right equipment. So why do they still charge so much? It's not just "knowing to drill the hole in the drain" but overhead like equipment (they need to buy all the expensive pro stuff, and keep it in working order; whereas you might just need the one tool to get your job done, they need all the tools to get all the jobs done), vehicles, gas, etc. And of course the down time traveling between jobs, office space if they have an office, employees, etc. All these things bring their prices back up to much higher than it would cost you to do it yourself--if only you knew what to do and had the right equipment.
- abdullahkhalids 2y ago
  Let's assume a solo plumber has to spend 10k/year on all their equipment maintenance. If they only do 20 hours of paid work per week, that adds 10 dollars to their hourly rate.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    The solo plumber also needs to put a lot of time in the office doing book work, scheduling jobs, restocking their van with parts, driving from job to job. If you are thinking about going into business for yourself either charge what your competition does - don't undercut anyone. If you can't figure out what your competition charges figure out what you need to live on and double it for a starting price and then get an accountant to look over your books in a few months. (though if you have no competition that is generally a sign that you have a bad business)
- SftwrSvior81 2y ago
  I think it's interesting to also think about it from the other perspective. If this is someone who is supporting themselves through this work, then what they have to at least charge you is going to depend on how much they need to survive, i.e., buy housing, food, tools, etc. If they get only a few jobs per week, then they kinda have to try to pay their bills off of those jobs. They may also have a spouse, kids, and various others who depend on this income for survival.
NegativeLatency 2y ago
I’d bet it’s actually a knockout and could’ve been tapped/broken out with a screwdriver and a hammer
Ekaros 2y ago
Those rates start to make lot more sense if you think how much would I charge to visit 30 minute meeting on other side of city. Or at least how many billable hours my employer would do. Time spend on traveling often ends up making up for the rest. Not to mention on overhead in admin if this would be just single time thing. Not to even think of materials, tools and such.
m463 2y ago
I remember (decades ago) buying a garage door opener at sears, and they offered to install it for $99. I sort of hemmed and hawed and said ok. When the guy came by to install it, it was kind of amazing. he opened the box quickly with a box cutter, and started unwrapping stuff. Stuff that was needed came out, extras were discarded into the lid of the box, all within about a minute. He had a special pole with a carpet covered T at the top to help get the old rail down safely and raise the new one. He ran all the lines quickly and efficiently. Lines that were too long were wrapped around a screwdriver to form a pigtail and efficiently run them with some tension the right length. I think it was done in ~ 20 minutes and worked right the first time. Simply amazing to see sometime who has done it before and really knows what they're doing. Made me question every install I would ever do after that. They did the same thing with a garbage disposal install a year or two later. ba-da-boom, done.
- brucehoult 2y ago
  And that is why I don't build my own PCs even though I can. I build a new PC about once every three or four years on average I suppose [1]. In that time processor sockets have changed, RAM has changed, sometimes other things. I select the parts, but pay the vendor or someone local to assemble and test it. Not only do they do it every week (if not every day), if some part is DoA they have others on hand to swap in and out to find out which part is the problem, but I don't, see: everything changed since I built the last one 5 years before. [1] 2009 i7-860, 2014 i7-4790K, 2016 i7-6700K (had moved countries, didn't take the old PC, just the SSD), 2019 TR 2990WX (again had moved countries, taking just the SSD), 2024 i9-13900HX laptop (beats the TR in every way, plus sips power and is portable).
  - automatic6131 2y ago
    Building a PC is just the right amount of challenge (for me). It's fun. I'd do it for my friends, if they let me. And wanted to spend one or two grand every other year. It's just challenging enough to be fun but not so challenging it's actually hard.
  - snvzz 2y ago
    I build them, because basically no one offers prebuilts with ECC memory.
addandsubtract 2y ago
Believe it or not, it was this article that solved the same problem I was having with my new sink / washing machine. For the past week, I've been draining the machine into the bathtub, because it wouldn't pump the water into the sink's drain pipe. I assumed the extension was too long, or the pump motor was too weak – turns out, I never cut the hole in the drain pipe. Thanks Chris!
- rconti 2y ago
  I laughed when I read it, because my father-in-law just finished telling me the same story about a dishwasher he installed in a new house he built in the 90s. Water everywhere the first time it went to drain. He was perplexed until a friend asked him if he drilled out the plug in the p-trap. Of COURSE you can't just have a hole in the side of a pipe under your sink, but the existence of the fitting gives you a false sense of security that it's plug-and-play.
loxs 2y ago
It's not always that easy. In my case we were moving to a new country. It was very hard to find English speaking tradespeople and the ones we did find told us that they can do it in 3 weeks earliest. So I had to either work as a dishwasher for 3 weeks (we have 2 kids) or connect the dishwasher myself, which took me a whole day and many trips to the hardware store. I still think I did the right thing.
Finnucane 2y ago
When we had our new w&d set installed (replacing a dead set), we paid a plumber. Part of that was needing the gas hookup for the dryer, and there was no way I was going to DIY that. And yeah, given what it costs just to have them show up, having both done is about the same cost as just one. And it did save me a lot of hassle.

normie3000 2y ago

Having connected my own washer recently, I'm terrified to ask... what hole in the drain?!

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bfdm 2y ago
Same. Thankfully, the post explains it as needing to drill open the PVC drain pipe under a sink where the washer drain pipe connects, inside a pre-formed attachment point. See "Solution 5" through "Solution 6". If your washer is draining and working, there's no latent issue to worry about.
yuliyp 2y ago
The one mentioned at the very end: the drain pipe the washer's drain connected to had a PVC cover that needed to be drilled/punched out (since if a washer wasn't connected it'd be a hole in that drain!). If you're replacing another washer, it was probably already punched out.
- stavros 2y ago
  Why wasn't there just a connector with a cap?
  - consp 2y ago
    Pvc is welded/glued. I would have installed at least a hose clamp on this thing and would never rely on friction to keep it in place.
  - dmurray 2y ago
    Even without a cap, gravity "should" prevent the drain leaking - the connection to the hose is some height above where it joins the U-trap. If the drain backs up and the pressure is high enough to force water out, it might be enough to pop any screwed cap too.
  - aargh_aargh 2y ago
    It's cheaper to make it without a hole than add a separate component and screw threads on both components. After all, you will drill the hole zero or one time, as needed.
  - addandsubtract 2y ago
    Because Ikea.
PeterStuer 2y ago
Most PVC under sink siffons have a preformed connection point where most people connect the dishwasher's hose. The ones I encountered had a tapered pipe point for several diameter drains. You saw off to the matching diameter of your hose. Often you would also put on a flowback protection valve so dirty water from e.g. draining a full sink would not get into to hose of your appliance.

kmoser 2y ago

Presumably a tradesman has knowledge and experience with these blockers, which for them should be largely "known unknowns" and easy to fix at that since they have all the right equipment. So why do they still charge so much? It's not just "knowing to drill the hole in the drain" but overhead like equipment (they need to buy all the expensive pro stuff, and keep it in working order; whereas you might just need the one tool to get your job done, they need all the tools to get all the jobs done), vehicles, gas, etc. And of course the down time traveling between jobs, office space if they have an office, employees, etc. All these things bring their prices back up to much higher than it would cost you to do it yourself--if only you knew what to do and had the right equipment.

abdullahkhalids 2y ago
Let's assume a solo plumber has to spend 10k/year on all their equipment maintenance. If they only do 20 hours of paid work per week, that adds 10 dollars to their hourly rate.
- bluGill 2y ago
  The solo plumber also needs to put a lot of time in the office doing book work, scheduling jobs, restocking their van with parts, driving from job to job. If you are thinking about going into business for yourself either charge what your competition does - don't undercut anyone. If you can't figure out what your competition charges figure out what you need to live on and double it for a starting price and then get an accountant to look over your books in a few months. (though if you have no competition that is generally a sign that you have a bad business)
SftwrSvior81 2y ago
I think it's interesting to also think about it from the other perspective. If this is someone who is supporting themselves through this work, then what they have to at least charge you is going to depend on how much they need to survive, i.e., buy housing, food, tools, etc. If they get only a few jobs per week, then they kinda have to try to pay their bills off of those jobs. They may also have a spouse, kids, and various others who depend on this income for survival.

NegativeLatency 2y ago

I’d bet it’s actually a knockout and could’ve been tapped/broken out with a screwdriver and a hammer

Ekaros 2y ago

Those rates start to make lot more sense if you think how much would I charge to visit 30 minute meeting on other side of city. Or at least how many billable hours my employer would do. Time spend on traveling often ends up making up for the rest. Not to mention on overhead in admin if this would be just single time thing. Not to even think of materials, tools and such.

m463 2y ago

I remember (decades ago) buying a garage door opener at sears, and they offered to install it for $99. I sort of hemmed and hawed and said ok. When the guy came by to install it, it was kind of amazing. he opened the box quickly with a box cutter, and started unwrapping stuff. Stuff that was needed came out, extras were discarded into the lid of the box, all within about a minute. He had a special pole with a carpet covered T at the top to help get the old rail down safely and raise the new one. He ran all the lines quickly and efficiently. Lines that were too long were wrapped around a screwdriver to form a pigtail and efficiently run them with some tension the right length. I think it was done in ~ 20 minutes and worked right the first time. Simply amazing to see sometime who has done it before and really knows what they're doing. Made me question every install I would ever do after that. They did the same thing with a garbage disposal install a year or two later. ba-da-boom, done.

brucehoult 2y ago
And that is why I don't build my own PCs even though I can. I build a new PC about once every three or four years on average I suppose [1]. In that time processor sockets have changed, RAM has changed, sometimes other things. I select the parts, but pay the vendor or someone local to assemble and test it. Not only do they do it every week (if not every day), if some part is DoA they have others on hand to swap in and out to find out which part is the problem, but I don't, see: everything changed since I built the last one 5 years before. [1] 2009 i7-860, 2014 i7-4790K, 2016 i7-6700K (had moved countries, didn't take the old PC, just the SSD), 2019 TR 2990WX (again had moved countries, taking just the SSD), 2024 i9-13900HX laptop (beats the TR in every way, plus sips power and is portable).
- automatic6131 2y ago
  Building a PC is just the right amount of challenge (for me). It's fun. I'd do it for my friends, if they let me. And wanted to spend one or two grand every other year. It's just challenging enough to be fun but not so challenging it's actually hard.
- snvzz 2y ago
  I build them, because basically no one offers prebuilts with ECC memory.

addandsubtract 2y ago

Believe it or not, it was this article that solved the same problem I was having with my new sink / washing machine. For the past week, I've been draining the machine into the bathtub, because it wouldn't pump the water into the sink's drain pipe. I assumed the extension was too long, or the pump motor was too weak – turns out, I never cut the hole in the drain pipe. Thanks Chris!

rconti 2y ago
I laughed when I read it, because my father-in-law just finished telling me the same story about a dishwasher he installed in a new house he built in the 90s. Water everywhere the first time it went to drain. He was perplexed until a friend asked him if he drilled out the plug in the p-trap. Of COURSE you can't just have a hole in the side of a pipe under your sink, but the existence of the fitting gives you a false sense of security that it's plug-and-play.

loxs 2y ago

It's not always that easy. In my case we were moving to a new country. It was very hard to find English speaking tradespeople and the ones we did find told us that they can do it in 3 weeks earliest. So I had to either work as a dishwasher for 3 weeks (we have 2 kids) or connect the dishwasher myself, which took me a whole day and many trips to the hardware store. I still think I did the right thing.

Finnucane 2y ago

When we had our new w&d set installed (replacing a dead set), we paid a plumber. Part of that was needing the gas hookup for the dryer, and there was no way I was going to DIY that. And yeah, given what it costs just to have them show up, having both done is about the same cost as just one. And it did save me a lot of hassle.