4 ms·

I have to wonder if sitting by a fire at night is analogous.

by mlhpdx 2y ago

selcuka 2y ago
I remember reading somewhere that it is analogous to closing your eyes under the sun, as your eyelids only allow some wavelengths of sunlight. Not sure if that's accurate.
- mk_stjames 2y ago
  The transmittance of light through the human eyelid is about two orders of magnitude greater at the start of the near-IR (~700) nm than it is at 450nm. [1] [1] "Measuring and predicting eyelid spectral transmittance" Journal of Biomedical Optics, Vol. 16, Issue 6, 067011 (June 2011) https://doi.org/10.1117/1.3593151 https://doi.org/10.1117/1.3593151
- bethekind 2y ago
  It's quite analogous, especially for ideal intensity Bright enough to warm the body, but not thermally stress the cells. And yeah, closing your eyelids would block UV light from getting in and cross linking proteins and causing cataracts, while still allowing for NIR light to get in and speed up the mitochondria. Analogous for sure
  - HumblyTossed 2y ago
    So, to replicate the results of this study how long would a person have to do this each (morning?)?
inciampati 2y ago
Weirdly they didn't test nighttime exposure as an intervention. OK, "weird" means probably it was costly/hard to get people into a lab setting at 9pm... But it does make you wonder!
- hollerith 2y ago
  A different study found that red light helps only if it precedes exposure to blue light, blue light and UV light being the main sources of (oxidative) stress on the retina. Knowing that is probably why they didn't bother testing night-time exposure. Some believe that the reason red light helps is that cytochrome C oxidase can use the red light to convert serotonin to melatonin and that melatonin is the most important anti-oxidant in the human body. (Under this model, melatonin cannot get into the mitochondria, but serotonin can.)
  - 6510 2y ago
    A few decades ago I had this mysterious sunny morning with colors 10 times brighter than usual. I never managed to figure it out, now the only things I remember are that the curtains were open, the sun came in, I had a dark red box next to my bed that I must have looked at for 20-30 seconds because the color was so absurdly vivid, then I looked at a gold lamp on top and thought woah! The effect persisted for a while, everything in my house looked different. I've also noticed changes in my vision when sleeping in different places. What little I remember it sure fits your description. I might try hooking up a red heat lamp to a timer as an alarm clock to see what happens.
    - zarzavat 2y ago
      Sounds like Chimerical colors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color#Chimerical_colors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color#Chimerical_co...
yazaddaruvala 2y ago
Not exactly a scientific experiment, but based on this video it seems like fire would have significantly less visible intensity for it to make a meaningful difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBL3NdIK4DI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBL3NdIK4DI
pier25 2y ago
what about the sun?
- dexwiz 2y ago
  I don’t think people realize how much brighter the sun is than almost all other light sources in their life.
  - fecal_henge 2y ago
    What is sun?
  - throitallaway 2y ago
    LED headlights in some vehicles are a close second.
- bethekind 2y ago
  Sun is good, but has limitations It has UV, which stresses out the cells You can't PWM the sun, it's hard to get full naked coverage in front of it. Doesn't perfectly target NIR or NIR-II biological windows. But for a base/starter, it can't be beat. Simply put, light is better than no light.
bethekind 2y ago
I bought an infrared parabolic heater to test this out once, as a friend made a comment insinuating that more time in front of fire meant a better sleep. I ran it for a few days, but the results were mixed and inconclusive. I suspect because the longer IR wavelengths just heat the body up, it's hard to get enough of the more "useful" wavelengths without overheating
tt7792 2y ago
From my experience, fire infrared light can be stronger than the sun. I used to have occasional pain in my left knee, but resolved it by one or two really hot sessions at the chimney(I nearly burned myself lol so it has to be really hot in order to get rid of chronical pain). Knee pain is gone now. I have read a theory of the vagus nerve sending harmful substances produced by the microbiome in the bowels to the knee to prevent it going to the brain. The useful compounds get teleported to the brain(we got no clue how the vagus nerve does it, but if you lack a functioning vagus nerve the transportation ceases).

I have to wonder if sitting by a fire at night is analogous.

by mlhpdx 2y ago

I have to wonder if sitting by a fire at night is analogous.

I remember reading somewhere that it is analogous to closing your eyes under the sun, as your eyelids only allow some wavelengths of sunlight. Not sure if that's accurate.

mk_stjames 2y ago
The transmittance of light through the human eyelid is about two orders of magnitude greater at the start of the near-IR (~700) nm than it is at 450nm. [1] [1] "Measuring and predicting eyelid spectral transmittance" Journal of Biomedical Optics, Vol. 16, Issue 6, 067011 (June 2011) https://doi.org/10.1117/1.3593151 https://doi.org/10.1117/1.3593151
bethekind 2y ago
It's quite analogous, especially for ideal intensity Bright enough to warm the body, but not thermally stress the cells. And yeah, closing your eyelids would block UV light from getting in and cross linking proteins and causing cataracts, while still allowing for NIR light to get in and speed up the mitochondria. Analogous for sure
- HumblyTossed 2y ago
  So, to replicate the results of this study how long would a person have to do this each (morning?)?

inciampati 2y ago

Weirdly they didn't test nighttime exposure as an intervention. OK, "weird" means probably it was costly/hard to get people into a lab setting at 9pm... But it does make you wonder!

hollerith 2y ago
A different study found that red light helps only if it precedes exposure to blue light, blue light and UV light being the main sources of (oxidative) stress on the retina. Knowing that is probably why they didn't bother testing night-time exposure. Some believe that the reason red light helps is that cytochrome C oxidase can use the red light to convert serotonin to melatonin and that melatonin is the most important anti-oxidant in the human body. (Under this model, melatonin cannot get into the mitochondria, but serotonin can.)
- 6510 2y ago
  A few decades ago I had this mysterious sunny morning with colors 10 times brighter than usual. I never managed to figure it out, now the only things I remember are that the curtains were open, the sun came in, I had a dark red box next to my bed that I must have looked at for 20-30 seconds because the color was so absurdly vivid, then I looked at a gold lamp on top and thought woah! The effect persisted for a while, everything in my house looked different. I've also noticed changes in my vision when sleeping in different places. What little I remember it sure fits your description. I might try hooking up a red heat lamp to a timer as an alarm clock to see what happens.
  - zarzavat 2y ago
    Sounds like Chimerical colors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color#Chimerical_colors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color#Chimerical_co...

yazaddaruvala 2y ago

Not exactly a scientific experiment, but based on this video it seems like fire would have significantly less visible intensity for it to make a meaningful difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBL3NdIK4DI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBL3NdIK4DI

pier25 2y ago

what about the sun?

dexwiz 2y ago
I don’t think people realize how much brighter the sun is than almost all other light sources in their life.
- fecal_henge 2y ago
  What is sun?
- throitallaway 2y ago
  LED headlights in some vehicles are a close second.
bethekind 2y ago
Sun is good, but has limitations It has UV, which stresses out the cells You can't PWM the sun, it's hard to get full naked coverage in front of it. Doesn't perfectly target NIR or NIR-II biological windows. But for a base/starter, it can't be beat. Simply put, light is better than no light.

bethekind 2y ago

I bought an infrared parabolic heater to test this out once, as a friend made a comment insinuating that more time in front of fire meant a better sleep. I ran it for a few days, but the results were mixed and inconclusive. I suspect because the longer IR wavelengths just heat the body up, it's hard to get enough of the more "useful" wavelengths without overheating

tt7792 2y ago

From my experience, fire infrared light can be stronger than the sun. I used to have occasional pain in my left knee, but resolved it by one or two really hot sessions at the chimney(I nearly burned myself lol so it has to be really hot in order to get rid of chronical pain). Knee pain is gone now. I have read a theory of the vagus nerve sending harmful substances produced by the microbiome in the bowels to the knee to prevent it going to the brain. The useful compounds get teleported to the brain(we got no clue how the vagus nerve does it, but if you lack a functioning vagus nerve the transportation ceases).