3 ms·

This is always brought up as if it’s a conspiracy, but why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved?

like_any_other 2y ago
> why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved? Because they do - albeit selectively. Since the original source of this story (https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf599db6b9ec354c68ed5ff4d5701b84 https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf...) is the Associated Press, here are the results of "killed by white site:apnews.com" from duckduckgo.com: - Black Florida mother killed by white neighbor remembered for faith, devotion to 4 kids - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslaughter-6986f11d0aeed6a9aaf147354ae85c1c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslau... - White Florida woman sentenced to 25 years in prison for shooting Black neighbor in lengthy dispute - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-sentence-eeebdfa89b98164b87179629ca36799c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-s... - Vigil honors 2 Black residents killed by white man - https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shootings-race-and-ethnicity-3e838cea71bc36e21bd48baddb3f110e https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shoot... - Body camera video shows fatal shooting of Black airman by Florida deputy in apartment doorway - https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-killed-c747bffae2690dd8fa0908f4b95821b6 https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-kil... - White Nebraska man shoots and wounds 7 Guatemalan immigrant neighbors - https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e4da2e4bc6d28eb36236e8712dcedb7 https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e... - Attorneys for family of absolved Black man killed by deputy seeking $16M from Georgia sheriff - https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-5726bca0db7c6666ab1fc6422a92bff1 https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-m... - Mississippi judge declares mistrial for 2 white men charged in attack on Black FedEx driver - https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting-trial-ddf3f6575b285028f82b1ebcf43ed501 https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting... - St. Louis chief: Black male shot, killed by white officer - https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c947073046332 https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c94707304... I've filtered it down to only where race is mentioned in the title itself. Plenty of results for the intended query. Notably, there were zero results (in this search, and judging by the title only, in the first ~5 pages) for white victims - it correctly parsed "killed by white" to include only white perpetrators. Results for "killed by black site:apnews.com": - Killing of an airman by Florida deputy is among cases of Black people being shot in their homes - https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-fortson-death-6e8db776663b684d878917e6b7ea4e57 https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-forts... - Family of exonerated Black man killed by a Georgia deputy is suing him in federal court - https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-leonard-cure-9d7b69a74245eccc3f094c09de2040b5 https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsu... - Guilty verdict means “some justice” for Black mother killed by white neighbor in Florida - https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-homicide-aacab64abd754cbeb7cfb0ba3e09c89e https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-ho... - Bodycam video reveals chaotic scene of deputy fatally shooting Black woman who called 911 for help - https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-national-national-cf81de6d5d8b45379388c27f42f9d43e https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-... - Arrest made in beating death of pioneering Black Bronx rocker - https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-killed-555d92f29b5e47380049e867f9aa4bfa https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-... - Homeowner pleads guilty to shooting Black teen Ralph Yarl who rang the wrong doorbell - https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester-missouri-c3ad936efab5feecc86f7928f730ec35 https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester... - Investigators name the trooper who fatally shot a Black Minnesota man during a traffic stop - https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-stop-14081a3fafc9aab467d1c456f9605de0 https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-... Again filtered for only cases reporting on killings, where race is mentioned in the title. In the first ~5 pages, there were zero results (judging by title alone) about black perpetrators - all the stories were about black victims, even though it had no trouble parsing the query correctly when asking about white perpetrators. This is despite the fact that in 2019 (the most recent year for which the FBI published this data [1]), there were 566 black-on-white killings, and 246 white-on-black killings (where the FBI includes latinos in "white"). So it's not that the AP's reporting simply reflects reality. Their journalists are simply following the official AP style on race - only identify it when it is "pertinent" [2]. It just so happens that when a white kills a black, race is pertinent, and when a black kills a white, it is a "random act of violence". [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] Consider carefully when deciding whether to identify people by race. Often, it is an irrelevant factor and drawing unnecessary attention to someone’s race or ethnicity can be interpreted as bigotry. There are, however, occasions when race is pertinent - https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apstylebook.com/race-related-coverage https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apsty...
- sepositus 2y ago
  Thanks for doing the work and bringing the receipts. I don't consider this some "grand conspiracy" in the sense that it's well coordinated amongst organizations. It's just been politically expedient to act this way in the last decade or so.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    The false appearance of conspiracy can easily arise when you have numerous people with roughly aligned ideologies and incentives independently responding to similar stimuli in whatever way they personally think is the most prudent. That's probably what's going on here. This idea was explained by Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent.
    - dullcrisp 2y ago
      By those criteria human society would appear to be a conspiracy.
      - chongli 2y ago
        No, a conspiracy has a very specific definition that has gotten lost in all the noise: noun (plural conspiracies) a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful: she served five years in prison for taking part in a conspiracy to sell stolen art works. The key is that it's a secret plan. People have to have gotten together to meet, in secret, and agree on a plan. This is why true grand conspiracies are so rare: it's hard to get a lot of people together in one room, get them all to agree on a plan, and get them all to keep it a secret. The more people involved, the more likely there will be a leaker. Criminal conspiracies are quite common though. Of course, those can involve as few as 2 people making a plan to commit a crime together.
      - lupusreal 2y ago
        People who live far outside of the mainstream do often come to believe that mainstream society is all one grand conspiracy. That perception is an illusion, created by the mechanism I described.

like_any_other 2y ago

> why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved? Because they do - albeit selectively. Since the original source of this story (https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf599db6b9ec354c68ed5ff4d5701b84 https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf...) is the Associated Press, here are the results of "killed by white site:apnews.com" from duckduckgo.com: - Black Florida mother killed by white neighbor remembered for faith, devotion to 4 kids - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslaughter-6986f11d0aeed6a9aaf147354ae85c1c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslau... - White Florida woman sentenced to 25 years in prison for shooting Black neighbor in lengthy dispute - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-sentence-eeebdfa89b98164b87179629ca36799c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-s... - Vigil honors 2 Black residents killed by white man - https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shootings-race-and-ethnicity-3e838cea71bc36e21bd48baddb3f110e https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shoot... - Body camera video shows fatal shooting of Black airman by Florida deputy in apartment doorway - https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-killed-c747bffae2690dd8fa0908f4b95821b6 https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-kil... - White Nebraska man shoots and wounds 7 Guatemalan immigrant neighbors - https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e4da2e4bc6d28eb36236e8712dcedb7 https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e... - Attorneys for family of absolved Black man killed by deputy seeking $16M from Georgia sheriff - https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-5726bca0db7c6666ab1fc6422a92bff1 https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-m... - Mississippi judge declares mistrial for 2 white men charged in attack on Black FedEx driver - https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting-trial-ddf3f6575b285028f82b1ebcf43ed501 https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting... - St. Louis chief: Black male shot, killed by white officer - https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c947073046332 https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c94707304... I've filtered it down to only where race is mentioned in the title itself. Plenty of results for the intended query. Notably, there were zero results (in this search, and judging by the title only, in the first ~5 pages) for white victims - it correctly parsed "killed by white" to include only white perpetrators. Results for "killed by black site:apnews.com": - Killing of an airman by Florida deputy is among cases of Black people being shot in their homes - https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-fortson-death-6e8db776663b684d878917e6b7ea4e57 https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-forts... - Family of exonerated Black man killed by a Georgia deputy is suing him in federal court - https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-leonard-cure-9d7b69a74245eccc3f094c09de2040b5 https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsu... - Guilty verdict means “some justice” for Black mother killed by white neighbor in Florida - https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-homicide-aacab64abd754cbeb7cfb0ba3e09c89e https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-ho... - Bodycam video reveals chaotic scene of deputy fatally shooting Black woman who called 911 for help - https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-national-national-cf81de6d5d8b45379388c27f42f9d43e https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-... - Arrest made in beating death of pioneering Black Bronx rocker - https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-killed-555d92f29b5e47380049e867f9aa4bfa https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-... - Homeowner pleads guilty to shooting Black teen Ralph Yarl who rang the wrong doorbell - https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester-missouri-c3ad936efab5feecc86f7928f730ec35 https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester... - Investigators name the trooper who fatally shot a Black Minnesota man during a traffic stop - https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-stop-14081a3fafc9aab467d1c456f9605de0 https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-... Again filtered for only cases reporting on killings, where race is mentioned in the title. In the first ~5 pages, there were zero results (judging by title alone) about black perpetrators - all the stories were about black victims, even though it had no trouble parsing the query correctly when asking about white perpetrators. This is despite the fact that in 2019 (the most recent year for which the FBI published this data [1]), there were 566 black-on-white killings, and 246 white-on-black killings (where the FBI includes latinos in "white"). So it's not that the AP's reporting simply reflects reality. Their journalists are simply following the official AP style on race - only identify it when it is "pertinent" [2]. It just so happens that when a white kills a black, race is pertinent, and when a black kills a white, it is a "random act of violence". [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] Consider carefully when deciding whether to identify people by race. Often, it is an irrelevant factor and drawing unnecessary attention to someone’s race or ethnicity can be interpreted as bigotry. There are, however, occasions when race is pertinent - https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apstylebook.com/race-related-coverage https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apsty...

sepositus 2y ago
Thanks for doing the work and bringing the receipts. I don't consider this some "grand conspiracy" in the sense that it's well coordinated amongst organizations. It's just been politically expedient to act this way in the last decade or so.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  The false appearance of conspiracy can easily arise when you have numerous people with roughly aligned ideologies and incentives independently responding to similar stimuli in whatever way they personally think is the most prudent. That's probably what's going on here. This idea was explained by Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent.
  - dullcrisp 2y ago
    By those criteria human society would appear to be a conspiracy.
    - chongli 2y ago
      No, a conspiracy has a very specific definition that has gotten lost in all the noise: noun (plural conspiracies) a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful: she served five years in prison for taking part in a conspiracy to sell stolen art works. The key is that it's a secret plan. People have to have gotten together to meet, in secret, and agree on a plan. This is why true grand conspiracies are so rare: it's hard to get a lot of people together in one room, get them all to agree on a plan, and get them all to keep it a secret. The more people involved, the more likely there will be a leaker. Criminal conspiracies are quite common though. Of course, those can involve as few as 2 people making a plan to commit a crime together.
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      People who live far outside of the mainstream do often come to believe that mainstream society is all one grand conspiracy. That perception is an illusion, created by the mechanism I described.