4 ms·

As far as I'm aware, the cult leader targeted trans women for recruitment. I think it's natural for people who are going through many changes with their body a

As far as I'm aware, the cult leader targeted trans women for recruitment. I think it's natural for people who are going through many changes with their body and their self-perception as well as their relationship to society to be vulnerable to certain kinds of cognitive biases and perhaps susceptible to millenarian philosophies presented by charismatic leaders. If you feel like you don't fit in your body, don't fit into society's categories and expectations for you, it may be easier for you to be persuaded to join a movement which rejects the current social construct. As far as media reporting or ignoring certain details, that's normal these days when it comes to politically sensitive topics or groups. I have seen many news stories about more mundane murder cases where the prime suspect was a minority and the media did not report it. Here in Canada, it's particularly common for the media to ignore the fact that a crime suspect is Indigenous, presumably to avoid feeding the stereotype that Indigenous people are more likely to commit crimes (Indigenous people are massively overrepresented in the incarceration statistics here).

lupusreal 2y ago
[flagged]
- decimalenough 2y ago
  Despite the downvotes, this may actually have been happening, since a big part of Zizian theory was the idea that everybody has two hemispheres, one male and one female.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    Yes, and they used brain-damaging techniques like sleep deprivation to make their victim-members even more malleable. Classic cult tactic.
buckle8017 2y ago
This is an offshoot of another cult, they didn't recruit trans people, they just got kicked out of the other cult.
fallinghawks 2y ago
There have been several instances where the QAnon types (e.g. Marjorie Taylor Greene) have baselessly accused mass murder suspects of being trans, or incorrectly accusing trans people of being the culprit in a violent incident. There is good reason to try to protect a vulnerable group as it can result in ostracization and violence against people who have nothing to do with the violent incident and are only connected by being a member of that group.
- mvdtnz 2y ago
  But do you think the media ignoring the connection makes the situation better or worse? I feel like it feeds into the bigoted narratives like "x group is doing y crimes and the media doesn't want you to know!".
- gruez 2y ago
  [flagged]
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  I agree with this idea and line of thinking, and it's well-intentioned but it comes with its own costs. There's a risk that over time, people might start to feel like they're being gaslit by a media conspiracy, and this feeling may build up until eventually society snaps into an extreme backlash, which may be worse than the original prejudice. Present events feel like one example of this. I think a similar thing happened with COVID; early on the media and government went hard on filtering information, in order to suppress anti-asian discrimination (as a sibling commenter mentions) or to prevent shortages of masks, but it ended up like squeezing a water balloon. Trying to control public opinion this way might have had short-term success but caused all sorts of radical conspiracy outbursts and a loss of trust in institutions. So as a long term strategy, it might just not work that well.
  - fallinghawks 2y ago
    I see what you're saying. Perhaps an upfront messaging would have been sensible, e.g. stating that Americans of Asian descent have no connection to this virus. But I'm unsure of how much effect it would have on bigots who will be bigots. During that administration bigots were emboldened, as they are even more so during this one.
Boogie_Man 2y ago
I feel like I'm losing my mind I'm almost positive I've read these two comments on hacker news before about the exact same subject.
- NJLucyk 2y ago
  Yea... did the comments get merged from the other post?
- zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
  Haha same. I had to check the timestamp
- sva_ 2y ago
  This sometimes happens when an old thread gets merged or bumped - timestamps get changed. It can be pretty disorienting.
- next_xibalba 2y ago
  Same. I searched HN and I think it might have been this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42880817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42880817
dullcrisp 2y ago
This is always brought up as if it’s a conspiracy, but why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved?
- like_any_other 2y ago
  > why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved? Because they do - albeit selectively. Since the original source of this story (https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf599db6b9ec354c68ed5ff4d5701b84 https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf...) is the Associated Press, here are the results of "killed by white site:apnews.com" from duckduckgo.com: - Black Florida mother killed by white neighbor remembered for faith, devotion to 4 kids - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslaughter-6986f11d0aeed6a9aaf147354ae85c1c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslau... - White Florida woman sentenced to 25 years in prison for shooting Black neighbor in lengthy dispute - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-sentence-eeebdfa89b98164b87179629ca36799c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-s... - Vigil honors 2 Black residents killed by white man - https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shootings-race-and-ethnicity-3e838cea71bc36e21bd48baddb3f110e https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shoot... - Body camera video shows fatal shooting of Black airman by Florida deputy in apartment doorway - https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-killed-c747bffae2690dd8fa0908f4b95821b6 https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-kil... - White Nebraska man shoots and wounds 7 Guatemalan immigrant neighbors - https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e4da2e4bc6d28eb36236e8712dcedb7 https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e... - Attorneys for family of absolved Black man killed by deputy seeking $16M from Georgia sheriff - https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-5726bca0db7c6666ab1fc6422a92bff1 https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-m... - Mississippi judge declares mistrial for 2 white men charged in attack on Black FedEx driver - https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting-trial-ddf3f6575b285028f82b1ebcf43ed501 https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting... - St. Louis chief: Black male shot, killed by white officer - https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c947073046332 https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c94707304... I've filtered it down to only where race is mentioned in the title itself. Plenty of results for the intended query. Notably, there were zero results (in this search, and judging by the title only, in the first ~5 pages) for white victims - it correctly parsed "killed by white" to include only white perpetrators. Results for "killed by black site:apnews.com": - Killing of an airman by Florida deputy is among cases of Black people being shot in their homes - https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-fortson-death-6e8db776663b684d878917e6b7ea4e57 https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-forts... - Family of exonerated Black man killed by a Georgia deputy is suing him in federal court - https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-leonard-cure-9d7b69a74245eccc3f094c09de2040b5 https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsu... - Guilty verdict means “some justice” for Black mother killed by white neighbor in Florida - https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-homicide-aacab64abd754cbeb7cfb0ba3e09c89e https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-ho... - Bodycam video reveals chaotic scene of deputy fatally shooting Black woman who called 911 for help - https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-national-national-cf81de6d5d8b45379388c27f42f9d43e https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-... - Arrest made in beating death of pioneering Black Bronx rocker - https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-killed-555d92f29b5e47380049e867f9aa4bfa https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-... - Homeowner pleads guilty to shooting Black teen Ralph Yarl who rang the wrong doorbell - https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester-missouri-c3ad936efab5feecc86f7928f730ec35 https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester... - Investigators name the trooper who fatally shot a Black Minnesota man during a traffic stop - https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-stop-14081a3fafc9aab467d1c456f9605de0 https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-... Again filtered for only cases reporting on killings, where race is mentioned in the title. In the first ~5 pages, there were zero results (judging by title alone) about black perpetrators - all the stories were about black victims, even though it had no trouble parsing the query correctly when asking about white perpetrators. This is despite the fact that in 2019 (the most recent year for which the FBI published this data [1]), there were 566 black-on-white killings, and 246 white-on-black killings (where the FBI includes latinos in "white"). So it's not that the AP's reporting simply reflects reality. Their journalists are simply following the official AP style on race - only identify it when it is "pertinent" [2]. It just so happens that when a white kills a black, race is pertinent, and when a black kills a white, it is a "random act of violence". [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] Consider carefully when deciding whether to identify people by race. Often, it is an irrelevant factor and drawing unnecessary attention to someone’s race or ethnicity can be interpreted as bigotry. There are, however, occasions when race is pertinent - https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apstylebook.com/race-related-coverage https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apsty...

lupusreal 2y ago

[flagged]

decimalenough 2y ago
Despite the downvotes, this may actually have been happening, since a big part of Zizian theory was the idea that everybody has two hemispheres, one male and one female.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Yes, and they used brain-damaging techniques like sleep deprivation to make their victim-members even more malleable. Classic cult tactic.

buckle8017 2y ago

This is an offshoot of another cult, they didn't recruit trans people, they just got kicked out of the other cult.

fallinghawks 2y ago

There have been several instances where the QAnon types (e.g. Marjorie Taylor Greene) have baselessly accused mass murder suspects of being trans, or incorrectly accusing trans people of being the culprit in a violent incident. There is good reason to try to protect a vulnerable group as it can result in ostracization and violence against people who have nothing to do with the violent incident and are only connected by being a member of that group.

mvdtnz 2y ago
But do you think the media ignoring the connection makes the situation better or worse? I feel like it feeds into the bigoted narratives like "x group is doing y crimes and the media doesn't want you to know!".
gruez 2y ago
[flagged]
mitthrowaway2 2y ago
I agree with this idea and line of thinking, and it's well-intentioned but it comes with its own costs. There's a risk that over time, people might start to feel like they're being gaslit by a media conspiracy, and this feeling may build up until eventually society snaps into an extreme backlash, which may be worse than the original prejudice. Present events feel like one example of this. I think a similar thing happened with COVID; early on the media and government went hard on filtering information, in order to suppress anti-asian discrimination (as a sibling commenter mentions) or to prevent shortages of masks, but it ended up like squeezing a water balloon. Trying to control public opinion this way might have had short-term success but caused all sorts of radical conspiracy outbursts and a loss of trust in institutions. So as a long term strategy, it might just not work that well.
- fallinghawks 2y ago
  I see what you're saying. Perhaps an upfront messaging would have been sensible, e.g. stating that Americans of Asian descent have no connection to this virus. But I'm unsure of how much effect it would have on bigots who will be bigots. During that administration bigots were emboldened, as they are even more so during this one.

Boogie_Man 2y ago

I feel like I'm losing my mind I'm almost positive I've read these two comments on hacker news before about the exact same subject.

NJLucyk 2y ago
Yea... did the comments get merged from the other post?
zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
Haha same. I had to check the timestamp
sva_ 2y ago
This sometimes happens when an old thread gets merged or bumped - timestamps get changed. It can be pretty disorienting.
next_xibalba 2y ago
Same. I searched HN and I think it might have been this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42880817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42880817

dullcrisp 2y ago

This is always brought up as if it’s a conspiracy, but why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved?

like_any_other 2y ago
> why do you expect the media to report on the ethnicity of the people involved? Because they do - albeit selectively. Since the original source of this story (https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf599db6b9ec354c68ed5ff4d5701b84 https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf...) is the Associated Press, here are the results of "killed by white site:apnews.com" from duckduckgo.com: - Black Florida mother killed by white neighbor remembered for faith, devotion to 4 kids - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslaughter-6986f11d0aeed6a9aaf147354ae85c1c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-shooting-florida-manslau... - White Florida woman sentenced to 25 years in prison for shooting Black neighbor in lengthy dispute - https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-sentence-eeebdfa89b98164b87179629ca36799c https://apnews.com/article/neighbor-killing-florida-prison-s... - Vigil honors 2 Black residents killed by white man - https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shootings-race-and-ethnicity-3e838cea71bc36e21bd48baddb3f110e https://apnews.com/article/ri-state-wire-ma-state-wire-shoot... - Body camera video shows fatal shooting of Black airman by Florida deputy in apartment doorway - https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-killed-c747bffae2690dd8fa0908f4b95821b6 https://apnews.com/article/florida-deputies-black-airman-kil... - White Nebraska man shoots and wounds 7 Guatemalan immigrant neighbors - https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e4da2e4bc6d28eb36236e8712dcedb7 https://apnews.com/article/man-shoots-immigrant-neighbors-7e... - Attorneys for family of absolved Black man killed by deputy seeking $16M from Georgia sheriff - https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-5726bca0db7c6666ab1fc6422a92bff1 https://apnews.com/article/georgia-deputy-kills-exonerated-m... - Mississippi judge declares mistrial for 2 white men charged in attack on Black FedEx driver - https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting-trial-ddf3f6575b285028f82b1ebcf43ed501 https://apnews.com/article/mississippi-fedex-driver-shooting... - St. Louis chief: Black male shot, killed by white officer - https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c947073046332 https://apnews.com/general-news-9e94f2803d4f486da57c94707304... I've filtered it down to only where race is mentioned in the title itself. Plenty of results for the intended query. Notably, there were zero results (in this search, and judging by the title only, in the first ~5 pages) for white victims - it correctly parsed "killed by white" to include only white perpetrators. Results for "killed by black site:apnews.com": - Killing of an airman by Florida deputy is among cases of Black people being shot in their homes - https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-fortson-death-6e8db776663b684d878917e6b7ea4e57 https://apnews.com/article/police-shootings-home-roger-forts... - Family of exonerated Black man killed by a Georgia deputy is suing him in federal court - https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsuit-leonard-cure-9d7b69a74245eccc3f094c09de2040b5 https://apnews.com/article/deputy-kills-exonerated-man-lawsu... - Guilty verdict means “some justice” for Black mother killed by white neighbor in Florida - https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-homicide-aacab64abd754cbeb7cfb0ba3e09c89e https://apnews.com/video/ajike-owens-florida-crime-juries-ho... - Bodycam video reveals chaotic scene of deputy fatally shooting Black woman who called 911 for help - https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-national-national-cf81de6d5d8b45379388c27f42f9d43e https://apnews.com/video/illinois-shootings-law-enforcement-... - Arrest made in beating death of pioneering Black Bronx rocker - https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-killed-555d92f29b5e47380049e867f9aa4bfa https://apnews.com/article/peter-forrest-247-spyz-rock-band-... - Homeowner pleads guilty to shooting Black teen Ralph Yarl who rang the wrong doorbell - https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester-missouri-c3ad936efab5feecc86f7928f730ec35 https://apnews.com/article/ralph-yarl-shooting-andrew-lester... - Investigators name the trooper who fatally shot a Black Minnesota man during a traffic stop - https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-stop-14081a3fafc9aab467d1c456f9605de0 https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-black-man-shot-traffic-... Again filtered for only cases reporting on killings, where race is mentioned in the title. In the first ~5 pages, there were zero results (judging by title alone) about black perpetrators - all the stories were about black victims, even though it had no trouble parsing the query correctly when asking about white perpetrators. This is despite the fact that in 2019 (the most recent year for which the FBI published this data [1]), there were 566 black-on-white killings, and 246 white-on-black killings (where the FBI includes latinos in "white"). So it's not that the AP's reporting simply reflects reality. Their journalists are simply following the official AP style on race - only identify it when it is "pertinent" [2]. It just so happens that when a white kills a black, race is pertinent, and when a black kills a white, it is a "random act of violence". [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] Consider carefully when deciding whether to identify people by race. Often, it is an irrelevant factor and drawing unnecessary attention to someone’s race or ethnicity can be interpreted as bigotry. There are, however, occasions when race is pertinent - https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apstylebook.com/race-related-coverage https://web.archive.org/web/20220715000414/https://www.apsty...