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I think it took the tone of an insult partly because "armed and emotional" comes off as a huge insult to our military leadership. There's probably nothing more

I think it took the tone of an insult partly because "armed and emotional" comes off as a huge insult to our military leadership. There's probably nothing more important to being a great military leader than the ability to keep a cool head in the midst of trying and even horrifying situations. I would guess there is a point of pride in doing that which was being assailed in your comment.

AlecSchueler 2y ago
> "armed and emotional" comes off as a huge insult Care to explain how having weapons or emotions is insulting? Everyone serving in the military is a human and humans have emotions. There's no shame in that and I think it requires quite a mean spirited mis-reading of what I said to take that from it. > the ability to keep a cool head in the midst of trying and even horrifying situations I think we're in agreement, you just have a different idea of what it means to be emotional. The desire to maintain a cool head in the face of horror is based in emotion. The effect of keeping a cool head might be exactly the reason why the technicalities of legality break down. All that said we also have to remember that not everyone serving is a "great military leader" and that's also part of the point at hand.
- darkerside 2y ago
  This is getting a bit silly, but I'll try again. > it comes down to people who are armed and emotional. This implies that real people are making emotional decisions instead of guided by reason. > technical terms like this of what is and isn't permitted These technical terms that you are discounting are some of the real weapons that human beings use to give them options beyond simply following orders that they disagree with. This is an incredibly nuanced topic, and to reduce it to people making "armed and emotional" decisions shows a lack of appreciation for what people try to do in difficult situations.
  - AlecSchueler 2y ago
    Again, your position is based on a disdain for emotion and a preference for "reason.' This is not a position I share, we are not Vulcans. I see no shame in recognising the emotional nature of our fellow actors. I would point out the humour in an emotional reaction to my choice of words derailing the conversation but the realisation that there are people who believe their "great military leaders" are somehow "above" emotions and that this is a good thing is genuinely terrifying
    - darkerside 2y ago
      Nobody is saying emotions don't exist. But I, like many others, believe that our ability to choose our reactions based on reason rather than emotion is what separates us from animals. We don't always succeed, but this is why your unevidenced claim implying that emotion is the primary driver of decision making has ruffled feathers. People including myself have emotional reactions, but I choose to respond with a reasoned explanation, and I certainly wouldn't engage in violence with you over it, even if a portion of my lizard brain demanded that I should.
      - AlecSchueler 2y ago
        > unevidenced claim implying that emotion is the primary driver of decision making You've added the words "primary driver" here yourself, I never made such a claim. But I hope you can see that not only that leap but also your desire to overcome your "animalistic" emotions are both rooted in emotion. I won't waste my time looking for evidence for a claim I didn't make and I don't think it's up for debate that the majority of people in the armed forces are "armed and emotional." But in terms of the original claim that checks and balances only serve up to the point of human failure I could point to any number of examples and would repeat the fact that others have raised some in this thread.

AlecSchueler 2y ago

> "armed and emotional" comes off as a huge insult Care to explain how having weapons or emotions is insulting? Everyone serving in the military is a human and humans have emotions. There's no shame in that and I think it requires quite a mean spirited mis-reading of what I said to take that from it. > the ability to keep a cool head in the midst of trying and even horrifying situations I think we're in agreement, you just have a different idea of what it means to be emotional. The desire to maintain a cool head in the face of horror is based in emotion. The effect of keeping a cool head might be exactly the reason why the technicalities of legality break down. All that said we also have to remember that not everyone serving is a "great military leader" and that's also part of the point at hand.

darkerside 2y ago
This is getting a bit silly, but I'll try again. > it comes down to people who are armed and emotional. This implies that real people are making emotional decisions instead of guided by reason. > technical terms like this of what is and isn't permitted These technical terms that you are discounting are some of the real weapons that human beings use to give them options beyond simply following orders that they disagree with. This is an incredibly nuanced topic, and to reduce it to people making "armed and emotional" decisions shows a lack of appreciation for what people try to do in difficult situations.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago
  Again, your position is based on a disdain for emotion and a preference for "reason.' This is not a position I share, we are not Vulcans. I see no shame in recognising the emotional nature of our fellow actors. I would point out the humour in an emotional reaction to my choice of words derailing the conversation but the realisation that there are people who believe their "great military leaders" are somehow "above" emotions and that this is a good thing is genuinely terrifying
  - darkerside 2y ago
    Nobody is saying emotions don't exist. But I, like many others, believe that our ability to choose our reactions based on reason rather than emotion is what separates us from animals. We don't always succeed, but this is why your unevidenced claim implying that emotion is the primary driver of decision making has ruffled feathers. People including myself have emotional reactions, but I choose to respond with a reasoned explanation, and I certainly wouldn't engage in violence with you over it, even if a portion of my lizard brain demanded that I should.
    - AlecSchueler 2y ago
      > unevidenced claim implying that emotion is the primary driver of decision making You've added the words "primary driver" here yourself, I never made such a claim. But I hope you can see that not only that leap but also your desire to overcome your "animalistic" emotions are both rooted in emotion. I won't waste my time looking for evidence for a claim I didn't make and I don't think it's up for debate that the majority of people in the armed forces are "armed and emotional." But in terms of the original claim that checks and balances only serve up to the point of human failure I could point to any number of examples and would repeat the fact that others have raised some in this thread.