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One thing that confuses me about the current situation in the US government, is why more more people in the various government agencies aren't pushing back agai

by thayne 2y ago

One thing that confuses me about the current situation in the US government, is why more more people in the various government agencies aren't pushing back against all these executive orders. Especially, those that are clearly illegal, or unconstitutional.

watwut 2y ago
They do. It wont matter unless there is prosecution.
- rob74 2y ago
  Prosecution? Of the president who just last year got wide-ranging immunity from the Supreme Court? Or of his right-hand guy who allegedly does nothing without the president's OK?
  - Swoerd 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - watwut 2y ago
    Look, I agree with you on all points: politically, about rule of law being destroyed and also about Supreme Court being knowingly complicit. But, pushback is happening and is ignore. And it wont make change this year, not until actual catastrophe happens to America itself. Pushback can slow down descent, it can achieve improvements in the long term. Lasting change for the better could happen only if it was possible to prosecute actual crimes that happen. As long as these are immune (which they are), things will only get worst. And as long as half of Americans are determined to euphemism away and both side away and twist themselves into pretzels to enable and excuse, things wont get better. And then it will take massive amount of reforms to make things good again. And pretty much all the totally not pro-Trump people full off infinite benefit of the doubt towards him will suddenly loose it.
ericjmorey 2y ago
Hasn't risen to the point where the people perpetrating the crimes are credibly threatened with violence. People are still gambling on the nonviolent options.
alabastervlog 2y ago
They lead with firing a ton of the people in semi-independent executive branch offices that are suppose to raise red flags (in an advisory role, and formally putting the brakes on things if that's not enough) if the admin tries to do illegal stuff. Like, that was among their first actions. They've been clearing out people who might resist before they get a chance to, and have made it clear that your life's gonna be messed up (your career's over, if nothing else, which is a pretty big deal for normal non-billionaires) if you rock the boat. The only major, public resistance has been over dropping the prosecution of NY's mayor, and the first of the prosecutors to resign received a letter promising retaliation against other members of her office and that she'd have an investigation launched against her, which, even if it goes nowhere, is basically promising to make someone's life hell for the next year or so. They're looking to hurt people who don't play along, so others just shut up and do what they're told. We haven't seen them going after political opponents (Democrats or Republicans who don't nod along to every single thing—and business leaders, this isn't limited to politicians) but nearly everyone in DC and in big business is a bit dirty and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing very selective investigations and prosecutions of things that everyone had kinda agreed to overlook up until now (and that may be far from the most-severe corruption going on), that they don't even pretend aren't aimed at getting everyone else to stay in line and go along with the agenda, legality be damned. They've got the access to do it and there are some indications DOGE and pals are starting to poke around in things like tax records.
- tiahura 2y ago
  Maybe there should be, but there’s no such thing as a semi-independent branch. Whoever told you so is either trying to mislead you or hasn’t read the constitution. In the US, there are just 3 branches. Unless you work for congress or the courts, you work for the executive branch.
  - buttercraft 2y ago
    They said branch offices
    - 2y ago
HPMOR 2y ago
"I expect that you will eventually find somebody who is foolish enough or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to be me." - SDNY Prosecutor resigning after being asked to drop the Eric Adams corruption case. The people who would push back are resigning as their last resort. Soon anybody who has any sense of fidelity to the rule of law or the constitution will be removed from power.
- rob74 2y ago
  Resigning or being fired, like the USAID inspector general: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/11/trump-federal-watchdog-usaid https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/11/trump-federa...
- ericjmorey 2y ago
  Resignation is quitting before the fight. Make them fire you and file suit for wrongful termination.
  - ninalanyon 2y ago
    Not everyone has the appetite for litigation. It can be expensive in cash, time, and relationships. Anyone supporting a family will need to consider the effect it will have on the family. We aren't all brave enough to fight against such a powerful adversary even if no one else would be negatively affected by doing it. Of course population level passivity in the end allows the adversary to win but it's hard to be the first to stand on the front line.
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      Litigation is absolutely horrible. There is a reason they say "you can't fight city hall." The gov will burn itself down to fight you in court. They generally don't like to settle because losing just means they may have to raise taxes or insurance premiums. No gov attorney is likely to actually lose their job because they fought too long or hard and lost.
tiahura 2y ago
Don’t be so sure they’re all unconstitutional. Read A2S1. Read Humphrey’s Executor and try not to snicker.
- stogot 2y ago
  What is A2S1?

by thayne 2y ago

watwut 2y ago

They do. It wont matter unless there is prosecution.

rob74 2y ago
Prosecution? Of the president who just last year got wide-ranging immunity from the Supreme Court? Or of his right-hand guy who allegedly does nothing without the president's OK?
- Swoerd 2y ago
  [flagged]
- watwut 2y ago
  Look, I agree with you on all points: politically, about rule of law being destroyed and also about Supreme Court being knowingly complicit. But, pushback is happening and is ignore. And it wont make change this year, not until actual catastrophe happens to America itself. Pushback can slow down descent, it can achieve improvements in the long term. Lasting change for the better could happen only if it was possible to prosecute actual crimes that happen. As long as these are immune (which they are), things will only get worst. And as long as half of Americans are determined to euphemism away and both side away and twist themselves into pretzels to enable and excuse, things wont get better. And then it will take massive amount of reforms to make things good again. And pretty much all the totally not pro-Trump people full off infinite benefit of the doubt towards him will suddenly loose it.

ericjmorey 2y ago

Hasn't risen to the point where the people perpetrating the crimes are credibly threatened with violence. People are still gambling on the nonviolent options.

alabastervlog 2y ago

They lead with firing a ton of the people in semi-independent executive branch offices that are suppose to raise red flags (in an advisory role, and formally putting the brakes on things if that's not enough) if the admin tries to do illegal stuff. Like, that was among their first actions. They've been clearing out people who might resist before they get a chance to, and have made it clear that your life's gonna be messed up (your career's over, if nothing else, which is a pretty big deal for normal non-billionaires) if you rock the boat. The only major, public resistance has been over dropping the prosecution of NY's mayor, and the first of the prosecutors to resign received a letter promising retaliation against other members of her office and that she'd have an investigation launched against her, which, even if it goes nowhere, is basically promising to make someone's life hell for the next year or so. They're looking to hurt people who don't play along, so others just shut up and do what they're told. We haven't seen them going after political opponents (Democrats or Republicans who don't nod along to every single thing—and business leaders, this isn't limited to politicians) but nearly everyone in DC and in big business is a bit dirty and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing very selective investigations and prosecutions of things that everyone had kinda agreed to overlook up until now (and that may be far from the most-severe corruption going on), that they don't even pretend aren't aimed at getting everyone else to stay in line and go along with the agenda, legality be damned. They've got the access to do it and there are some indications DOGE and pals are starting to poke around in things like tax records.

tiahura 2y ago
Maybe there should be, but there’s no such thing as a semi-independent branch. Whoever told you so is either trying to mislead you or hasn’t read the constitution. In the US, there are just 3 branches. Unless you work for congress or the courts, you work for the executive branch.
- buttercraft 2y ago
  They said branch offices
  - 2y ago

HPMOR 2y ago

"I expect that you will eventually find somebody who is foolish enough or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to be me." - SDNY Prosecutor resigning after being asked to drop the Eric Adams corruption case. The people who would push back are resigning as their last resort. Soon anybody who has any sense of fidelity to the rule of law or the constitution will be removed from power.

rob74 2y ago
Resigning or being fired, like the USAID inspector general: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/11/trump-federal-watchdog-usaid https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/11/trump-federa...
ericjmorey 2y ago
Resignation is quitting before the fight. Make them fire you and file suit for wrongful termination.
- ninalanyon 2y ago
  Not everyone has the appetite for litigation. It can be expensive in cash, time, and relationships. Anyone supporting a family will need to consider the effect it will have on the family. We aren't all brave enough to fight against such a powerful adversary even if no one else would be negatively affected by doing it. Of course population level passivity in the end allows the adversary to win but it's hard to be the first to stand on the front line.
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    Litigation is absolutely horrible. There is a reason they say "you can't fight city hall." The gov will burn itself down to fight you in court. They generally don't like to settle because losing just means they may have to raise taxes or insurance premiums. No gov attorney is likely to actually lose their job because they fought too long or hard and lost.

tiahura 2y ago

Don’t be so sure they’re all unconstitutional. Read A2S1. Read Humphrey’s Executor and try not to snicker.

stogot 2y ago
What is A2S1?