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> As I understand it the leaders of the military are appointed by the president, people in the military love guns and gun rights, and veterans are pro-Trump by

> As I understand it the leaders of the military are appointed by the president, people in the military love guns and gun rights, and veterans are pro-Trump by a wide margin [1] even following Jan 6th. This is a caricature that is as broad-brushed and offensive as claiming gay men all flounce around in assless chaps, and I say that with 20 years active and reserve service. Even in that poll (which I am curious about their methodology), 40% of veterans supported Harris, and my experience is that the military is a cross-section of society. I'm deeply skeptical that the modern military is as skewed towards one party as this poll would indicate. I highly suspect it is being skewed by either bad methodology or else by including a bunch of older veterans from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War, who would skew Republican. The military I served in was a diverse cross-section of broadly middle-class American society. And the leaders of the military are commissioned officers who are formally appointed by the President, but their oath is to the Constitution. And military leaders have served through bipartisan administrations . . . my own service was under W. Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden, and today's senior leaders also would have served under Clinton and possibly H. W. Bush. There is no MAGA cabal in military senior leadership; the opposite if anything. And just because someone "loves guns and gun rights" doesn't automatically put them in the MAGA column.

Forgeties79 2y ago
>and offensive as claiming gay men all flounce around in assless chaps I agree they are painting with a broad and inaccurate brush but to compare it to the stereotypes queer people have to endure, especially in the current social/cultural moment playing out in the US, is honestly far more offensive IMO. Those two situations are not on the same playing field. People in the armed forces (who aren't LGBT) do not know what it's like at all to be judged like the queer community.
- psunavy03 2y ago
  The point isn't to belittle or minimize discrimination against LGBT people. The point is to try to get someone who presumably supports LGBT rights to understand how it comes across to still make prejudiced remarks against other groups of people by comparing it to another well-worn and offensive stereotype.
  - Forgeties79 2y ago
    It may not have been the point of your comment but it was the result regardless. It’s a really poor comparison that, intentionally or not, minimizes the LGBT experience. The (yes incorrect) perception that the militarily is overwhelmingly conservative/republican doesn’t have some massively outsized (often negative) impact on your life akin to being queer in the US.
michaelt 2y ago
Some other surveys have produced some weird patterns, like [1] which said men in the military were Republican by roughly a 2:1 margin, while women in the military were Democrat by roughly a 2:1 margin - but there are a lot more men than women in the military. And [2] says, in an analysis of voting precincts that map closely onto military bases, "On average, Mr Trump still won these precincts, though his margin shrank by nearly half. Patrick Air Force Base—located on Florida’s Atlantic coast and since renamed Patrick Space Force Base—supported Mr Trump by a 17-point margin in 2016. By 2020, his lead there shrank to 11 points." So it may be more even among active duty military than among veterans, but an 11 point margin is still a win. Expecting that in a brawl they'd come out swinging on the Democrat side to me seemed naive, which is why them staying out of it seemed better than nothing. [1] https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/17/troops-see-rising-political-tension-in-the-ranks-poll-shows/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10... [2] https://archive.is/v6qOf#selection-1067.0-1069.342 https://archive.is/v6qOf#selection-1067.0-1069.342

Forgeties79 2y ago

>and offensive as claiming gay men all flounce around in assless chaps I agree they are painting with a broad and inaccurate brush but to compare it to the stereotypes queer people have to endure, especially in the current social/cultural moment playing out in the US, is honestly far more offensive IMO. Those two situations are not on the same playing field. People in the armed forces (who aren't LGBT) do not know what it's like at all to be judged like the queer community.

psunavy03 2y ago
The point isn't to belittle or minimize discrimination against LGBT people. The point is to try to get someone who presumably supports LGBT rights to understand how it comes across to still make prejudiced remarks against other groups of people by comparing it to another well-worn and offensive stereotype.
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  It may not have been the point of your comment but it was the result regardless. It’s a really poor comparison that, intentionally or not, minimizes the LGBT experience. The (yes incorrect) perception that the militarily is overwhelmingly conservative/republican doesn’t have some massively outsized (often negative) impact on your life akin to being queer in the US.

michaelt 2y ago

Some other surveys have produced some weird patterns, like [1] which said men in the military were Republican by roughly a 2:1 margin, while women in the military were Democrat by roughly a 2:1 margin - but there are a lot more men than women in the military. And [2] says, in an analysis of voting precincts that map closely onto military bases, "On average, Mr Trump still won these precincts, though his margin shrank by nearly half. Patrick Air Force Base—located on Florida’s Atlantic coast and since renamed Patrick Space Force Base—supported Mr Trump by a 17-point margin in 2016. By 2020, his lead there shrank to 11 points." So it may be more even among active duty military than among veterans, but an 11 point margin is still a win. Expecting that in a brawl they'd come out swinging on the Democrat side to me seemed naive, which is why them staying out of it seemed better than nothing. [1] https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/17/troops-see-rising-political-tension-in-the-ranks-poll-shows/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10... [2] https://archive.is/v6qOf#selection-1067.0-1069.342 https://archive.is/v6qOf#selection-1067.0-1069.342