14 ms·

I've often thought about how likely it is there are intelligent and sentient civilizations that are content to their planet, or bounded to it by - as you mentio

by pc86 2y ago

I've often thought about how likely it is there are intelligent and sentient civilizations that are content to their planet, or bounded to it by - as you mentioned - physiological constraints. I never connected that to "you probably need hands or something very closely approximating a hand" but it makes perfect sense.

asdff 2y ago
Intelligence is such a bewildering fixation too when you think about it for ourselves. Due to science fiction writers and our insistence on anthropomorphisation we assume we will be forming treaties aboard an alien ship meanwhile we have yet to communicate let alone form a treaty with any other form of life just here on earth. The hubris is massive and it invades even the scientific community to a degree. Whoever put that human pictograph on voyager evidently did not consult an evolutionary biologist nor a statistician, probably watched an episode of Star Trek.
- Earw0rm 2y ago
  I wonder what the likelihood is of big leaps forward there, in terms of communicating with other intelligent Earth life. As in, will our ability to wrangle vast amounts of data and characterise it gives us enough insight into what whales are saying to one another that we might be able to start asking them questions? It doesn't seem absurdly far-fetched at this point. But they're probably even more pissed at us for the last couple of centuries' behaviour than the various Indigenous peoples we Westerners have screwed over.
  - asdff 2y ago
    The hard part is that it goes two ways. Most animals are adapted for interactions within their own species. A seagull is adapted to react a certain way when another seagull screams the same way we smile when someone laughs or get a sense of panic if we hear someone shriek. A seagull has no concept of our behavior really beyond if we move at it in a threatening manner like other potential predators. The most you can do is probably some simple conditional learning akin to dog training considering seagulls in recreational areas have associated beachgoers with potential food source already. Why might a whale speak back to us? Maybe it we chum the water when whales make certain noises they will begin making those noises and expect chum. I wouldn’t call that communication as people expect it to be with ET however. A primitive form of trade perhaps.
    - Earw0rm 2y ago
      Whales are unusual in that they use complex sound for beyond visual range communication, and they may (emphasis may) be intelligent enough to treat our proxy sounds as an attempt to recreate their own and respond in kind. I doubt we'd get much out of a seagull or even a cat. They don't seem to communicate much. Whales however seem to be able to "speak" over long distances and emit long phrases in which individuals are identified by something like a name. There's a lot more to work with there than even most mammals.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  Well most science fiction writers have to be mediocre, by definition. There are some really intriguing works out there but they are very few and far inbetween.
sightbroke 2y ago
Hands, or tentacles, or a really long snout. There appear to be a variety of appendages that can be rather good at manipulating the environment for the users purpose. Forgot also swarms of many cooperativing organisms. Ants appear quite adapt at manipulating things to a degree.

by pc86 2y ago

asdff 2y ago

Intelligence is such a bewildering fixation too when you think about it for ourselves. Due to science fiction writers and our insistence on anthropomorphisation we assume we will be forming treaties aboard an alien ship meanwhile we have yet to communicate let alone form a treaty with any other form of life just here on earth. The hubris is massive and it invades even the scientific community to a degree. Whoever put that human pictograph on voyager evidently did not consult an evolutionary biologist nor a statistician, probably watched an episode of Star Trek.

Earw0rm 2y ago
I wonder what the likelihood is of big leaps forward there, in terms of communicating with other intelligent Earth life. As in, will our ability to wrangle vast amounts of data and characterise it gives us enough insight into what whales are saying to one another that we might be able to start asking them questions? It doesn't seem absurdly far-fetched at this point. But they're probably even more pissed at us for the last couple of centuries' behaviour than the various Indigenous peoples we Westerners have screwed over.
- asdff 2y ago
  The hard part is that it goes two ways. Most animals are adapted for interactions within their own species. A seagull is adapted to react a certain way when another seagull screams the same way we smile when someone laughs or get a sense of panic if we hear someone shriek. A seagull has no concept of our behavior really beyond if we move at it in a threatening manner like other potential predators. The most you can do is probably some simple conditional learning akin to dog training considering seagulls in recreational areas have associated beachgoers with potential food source already. Why might a whale speak back to us? Maybe it we chum the water when whales make certain noises they will begin making those noises and expect chum. I wouldn’t call that communication as people expect it to be with ET however. A primitive form of trade perhaps.
  - Earw0rm 2y ago
    Whales are unusual in that they use complex sound for beyond visual range communication, and they may (emphasis may) be intelligent enough to treat our proxy sounds as an attempt to recreate their own and respond in kind. I doubt we'd get much out of a seagull or even a cat. They don't seem to communicate much. Whales however seem to be able to "speak" over long distances and emit long phrases in which individuals are identified by something like a name. There's a lot more to work with there than even most mammals.
MichaelZuo 2y ago
Well most science fiction writers have to be mediocre, by definition. There are some really intriguing works out there but they are very few and far inbetween.

sightbroke 2y ago

Hands, or tentacles, or a really long snout. There appear to be a variety of appendages that can be rather good at manipulating the environment for the users purpose. Forgot also swarms of many cooperativing organisms. Ants appear quite adapt at manipulating things to a degree.